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La Scala for PA use.


Droogne

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On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:53 PM, Droogne said:

Didnt have any time to go through it, but will tomorrow! Did have a quick read in the "block party" thread, interesting stuff! Might upgrade to some MWM bins or the like in the future, but the LaScala tower is a start ;) 

For sure it is! And by the looks of another thread you started last month, you are getting some great feedback and info. Interesting stuff

out there. Whenever the gig is, it will be better all the time.:) There can be only one Klipsch forum. Super man!

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3 minutes ago, billybob said:

Pretty cool for sure.

 

10 hours ago, Marvel said:

There are some drawings of the MWM bins. They are pretty simple, even if big. @dtel  has built some and uses them in his house. A lot of plywood and big...

 

Bruce

Might be a worthwile plan! If we can build a pair of those with our organisation, we could maybe build some other bins/"flightcases" for the other drivers. Renting something like a line array or other decent audio installation might cost more to rent if we do that every year. Probably around 1000-2000 each year... If I can supply our first year with the amps, cables and mid/HF drivers we could build all the cabinets (we are with 40-50 people so workforce is not something we lack) and buy ourselves the appropriate gear over the years,  to run it without my personal input. That might be a plan I can convince them on. 

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5 minutes ago, billybob said:

For sure it is! And by the looks of another thread you started last month, you are getting some great feedback and info. Interesting stuff

out there. Whenever the gig is, it will be better all the time.:) There can be only one Klipsch forum. Super man!

Yeah, I'm getting some greaat input over there! Was going to tell you about that haha! Just forgot :s 

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15 minutes ago, Droogne said:

 

Might be a worthwile plan! If we can build a pair of those with our organisation, we could maybe build some other bins/"flightcases" for the other drivers. Renting something like a line array or other decent audio installation might cost more to rent if we do that every year. Probably around 1000-2000 each year... If I can supply our first year with the amps, cables and mid/HF drivers we could build all the cabinets (we are with 40-50 people so workforce is not something we lack) and buy ourselves the appropriate gear over the years,  to run it without my personal input. That might be a plan I can convince them on. 

Yes, sounds like a plan to me. Letting others take a lead just sounds smart at some point. Know they will be having some fun!:)

Happy for the number of willing...:emotion-44:

 

15 minutes ago, Droogne said:

Yeah, I'm getting some greaat input over there! Was going to tell you about that haha! Just forgot :s 

Lol, no big secret. Team Klipsch is knocking it out of the park. Even read it myself. :):emotion-44:

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I'll dig out dtel's drawing and find the links to Michael Colter's rebuild, which has lots of pics. That's assuming they are still on the forum's servers. I try to save stuff like that... but there's sooo much here.

 

Bruce

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Just now, Marvel said:

I'll dig out dtel's drawing and find the links to Michael Colter's rebuild, which has lots of pics. That's assuming they are still on the forum's servers. I try to save stuff like that... but there's sooo much here.

 

Bruce

Thanks! Absolutely no hurry, or problem if you dont find them! 

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8 minutes ago, Marvel said:

I'll dig out dtel's drawing and find the links to Michael Colter's rebuild, which has lots of pics. That's assuming they are still on the forum's servers. I try to save stuff like that... but there's sooo much here.

 

Bruce

Since you mentioned it Op, could well benefit from a search of the famed MC B)

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34 minutes ago, Marvel said:

I'll dig out dtel's drawing and find the links to Michael Colter's rebuild, which has lots of pics. That's assuming they are still on the forum's servers. I try to save stuff like that... but there's sooo much here.

 

Bruce

 

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58 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

 

Awesome thread! Some promising remarks about the simplicity of the build! Havent found any specs (power handling, sensitivities etc) about the MWM / MCM1900. Why is that? Because they are not always the same or? Is there maybe an "average"? Or some recommended drivers? Eminence Kappa 15C for the woofers I'm guessing, but what about the tweeters? Some wild recommendations so I can maybe have a look at how much the total project would cost. Maybe some JBL 2445/2380 horns for the midrange? They go for crazy cheap over here and seem perfect for a PA goal (maybe not the same klipsch quality though..). Again, no hurry and no problem in suggesting things youre not completely sure about, it's only in the planning stages. I will check everything again and again before I start the build, if I do. 

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1 hour ago, Marvel said:

This pdf includes specs for the whole thing...

 

http://images.klipsch.com/KPTMCM3_635042121842000000.pdf

 

Bruce

Hadnt thought of doing it like that.. Was looking for a different configuration though. Something like the MCM1900 which uses several smaller horns and drivers, instead of the K-402 and the KPTXII 12-inch Tractrix® module. Although they might be able to produce high-fidelity sound for several hundreds, maybe even thousands, they are next to impossible to get my hands on. I have looked at several ways to obtain the legendary K-402, but I haven't found any dealers in Europe which could sell them to me, and although I have found a way to buy them in the US I was told it would be crazy expensive to ship so that plan is on hold for at least several years. I was told I could use a Seos 30 horn (EDIT: or a jbl 2360? those are cheaper) to get as close to the K-402, but those horn also cost like 500 a piece (which is a bit too much for now, maybe in the near future). Using a 12" for mid-bass might be a good way to go though! Maybe I can emulate the design and use a sub I can easily get my hands (the EQ844, which is very "similar" in design to the MWM / Jubilee bin) from 100 to 200hz (or maybe even 300hz), the LaScala bin from 200-300hz to 600-700 (not sure how high the LS can go with decent efficiency etc) OR a front horn loaded mid-bas woofer (like in the Grand Cinema) and use my PH2380(horn)(or maybe one with a wider dispersion pattern? Not sure what is ideal for a concert/stage speaker) with a driver like the Faital HF200 (109db SPL and 70W power handling from 900hz, AND recommended by guys like Bob Crites). This looks like a project that would be in the price range of our organisation (and my persuasion skills) 

post-12152-13819247395856.jpg

SEOS-30a.jpg

Knipsel.PNG

Freq curve EQ844 2xKAPPA15LF.jpg

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On 15-11-2017 at 3:00 PM, billybob said:

Since you mentioned it Op, could well benefit from a search of the famed MC B)

 

On 15-11-2017 at 3:25 PM, CECAA850 said:

MWM drawing dimensioned plus c.jpg

 

On 15-11-2017 at 10:02 PM, Marvel said:

This pdf includes specs for the whole thing...

 

http://images.klipsch.com/KPTMCM3_635042121842000000.pdf

 

Bruce

Another general question, any idea / groundrule on dispersion? Does 1 horn (90x40) on each side give enough coverage? They would be placed 18-25 feet from each other. Or do you need more than 1 on each side / bigger Horn for that? 

 

 

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On 11/12/2017 at 12:16 PM, Droogne said:

I'm building 5 (maybe even 7) LaScalas.................

 

I heard someone mention that 1 topbin could be supported by 2 bassbins for PA use due to sensitivity mismatch)

 

Greetings

 

Not really.  The bass horn runs at 104 dB/w/m, on a K-400 the squawker can run 107 dB/w/m without attenuation and the tweeter runs 104 -105 dB/w/m, depending on the crossover circuit.  Two bass horns in parallel would run 110 dB/w/m (2x the driver area, 2x the power from 1/2 the impedance) and would go a little deeper because the mouth area would "appear" larger to each bass horn if they were side-by-side.  

 

I'd want 4 on each side of the stage,  and I'd stack them tweeter to tweeter and angle each stack away from each other to cover a wider angle.  Say, 15 degrees between the cabinets.  If you build 2-piece, you'd want to stack all 4 bass horns tightly together (should get the bass to go a little deeper) and splay the 4 uppers to cover that wider angle, still tweeter to tweeter.

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17 hours ago, JohnA said:

bu

 

17 hours ago, JohnA said:

4 o

 

17 hours ago, JohnA said:

 

Not really.  The bass horn runs at 104 dB/w/m, on a K-400 the squawker can run 107 dB/w/m without attenuation and the tweeter runs 104 -105 dB/w/m, depending on the crossover circuit.  Two bass horns in parallel would run 110 dB/w/m (2x the driver area, 2x the power from 1/2 the impedance) and would go a little deeper because the mouth area would "appear" larger to each bass horn if they were side-by-side.  

 

I'd want 4 on each side of the stage,  and I'd stack them tweeter to tweeter and angle each stack away from each other to cover a wider angle.  Say, 15 degrees between the cabinets.  If you build 2-piece, you'd want to stack all 4 bass horns tightly together (should get the bass to go a little deeper) and splay the 4 uppers to cover that wider angle, still tweeter to tweeter.

Yeah, that was the original idea! Question about the dispersion was because I was maybe thinking of a 4x manifold (or 3x) etc for midrange horn, but oh well it wouldnt really make it so much eaiser. But isnt the dispersion less an issue for the midrange horn? Greetings 

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Diy split LaScala tops with MWM bass bins work well together, simple AA crossovers. I use this out in the yard, more bass than a LaScala to help with bass, making good is tough outside but this helps alot.

mwm (21).JPG

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