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Speedy6963

FORTE III as a 2 WAY !!!!

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I did some research and Klipsch use the same horn and driver that they use in the Forte III as the midrange as the mid/tweeter out to 20khz on their cinema surround model KPT-1260H

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KPT-1260H-Data-Sheet-v02.pdf

 

The conversion consists of 3 changes to the crossover, no parts required and results in VERY flat response of the mid from 650 out to about 19khz

 

Much better imaging, ZERO fatigue , 100% win win !

 

If there is interest I will post my changes and measurements.

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you're a brave man Speedy to do all that to your FIII's! 

 

You say "ZERO fatigue" but what does that mean and why is that your goal??  ..Are you saying zero fatigue at any volume, any length of listening session and any kind of music/ instruments?  

 

To my thinking, listening fatigue is not necessarily an indication that something is wrong.   Some instruments and some voices, when heard live and un-amplified, WILL start to fatigue after awhile.   So these same instruments and voices played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue.  ..If you can't provoke listening fatigue EVER on a hifi rig then I would think the system is a bit soft and dull - meaning you're losing some of the music all of the time.

 

Personally, I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls to deal w/ occasional listening fatigue.  ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and a bright recording is suddenly tolerable..

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It would be interesting to see the measurements, do you have a way to measure distortion as well? I was actually wondering about that when I seen the driver looks like the RF-7 II driver which is also a 2-way but the crossover point is significantly higher at around 2200hz if I remember correctly. 

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3 hours ago, ODS123 said:

you're a brave man Speedy to do all that to your FIII's! 

 

You say "ZERO fatigue" but what does that mean and why is that your goal??  ..Are you saying zero fatigue at any volume, any length of listening session and any kind of music/ instruments?  

 

To my thinking, listening fatigue is not necessarily an indication that something is wrong.   Some instruments and some voices, when heard live and un-amplified, WILL start to fatigue after awhile.   So these same instruments and voices played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue.  ..If you can't provoke listening fatigue EVER on a hifi rig then I would think the system is a bit soft and dull - meaning you're losing some of the music all of the time.

 

Personally, I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls to deal w/ occasional listening fatigue.  ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and a bright recording is suddenly tolerable..

no bravery required, it is a zero cost and fully reversible modification .....  :-)

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

It would be interesting to see the measurements, do you have a way to measure distortion as well? I was actually wondering about that when I seen the driver looks like the RF-7 II driver which is also a 2-way but the crossover point is significantly higher at around 2200hz if I remember correctly. 

it is a different driver than the RF7 II, likely same supplier though.....

 

I can measure distortion using REW

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1 minute ago, DizRotus said:

Warranty voided.

If its fully functional as new, then no warranty needed, since I will not blow drivers like a 15 year old :-)

 

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2 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

Warranty voided.

also I had to get nosey and find that class D thread you are in and I purchased a ti eval board to play with , lol

 

I have way more amps than I need around here, tube, a/b, D  at least a couple dozen

 

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23 minutes ago, Speedy6963 said:

If its fully functional as new, then no warranty needed, since I will not blow drivers like a 15 year old :-)

 

 

The fear of a voided warranty has never stopped me from looking under the hood and ”improving” things.  

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7 minutes ago, bkevind said:

Is this bypassing the tweeter then?

disabling tweeter in crossover, modifying mid crossover bypassing the low pass portion and repurposing a 1uf cap to reshape the high freq response some.

 

about 5 inches of wire and a little soldering is all that is needed, took me about 20 minutes to do the 1st one

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15 minutes ago, Speedy6963 said:

no bravery required, it is a zero cost and fully reversible modification .....  :-)

Personally, I love how you have been working the problem until you found a solution to it that makes you happy. As well, though quite a few barbs have been thrown your way, you don't take the bait and remain upbeat and unflappable. Well done and very Cool.

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19 minutes ago, shiva said:

As well, though quite a few barbs have been thrown your way, you don't take the bait and remain upbeat and unflappable. Well done and very Cool.

I won't throw barbs, I just think he's nuts!  :lol:

 

But seriously, once you @Speedy6963 plunk down your hard earned money, they're your speakers.  And this is America so just like Harley owners, make it unique, make it your own!

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 I totally agree that it's pretty cool you customize your speakers and tha you have the skill to do this. We all enjoy the hobby in different ways.

 

But my question remains unanswered. To put it another way:   If you make a speaker incapable of causing listener fatigue aren't you also diminishing its ability to sound lifelike??  

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I think listening fatigue is a rather vague term there's going to be some naturally occurring fatigue like what you speak of but then there's unnatural, speaker / room / equipment matching related fatigue which usually presents itself quite obviously as being unnatural and in my experience intolerable.

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2 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:

it is a different driver than the RF7 II, likely same supplier though.....

 

I can measure distortion using REW

 

They look identical with a very similar part number, quite possible they are the same exact driver with modified number to coincide with the horn that is attached like in previous models, wonder if this is true? Is it an 8 ohm driver? 

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Very interesting idea, maybe laying the ground work for a 2-way Chorus III with a k-510 horn? Now that would be awesome!!

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well now it's time to build a new set of cabinets to get your mid horn centre up to your seated ear level (39 - 41 inches). If you enlarge the cabinet volume to make it taller you can pick up a little  bass extension. You can place the woofer on the wide side (mirror image the pair) and the horn on the narrow side to take up less visual width in your room that way and you have the option (with a mirror pair) to have woofer out or woofer in when you set up. Have at it. You can even play with the tweeter firing rear to provide ambience.

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5 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Very interesting idea, maybe laying the ground work for a 2-way Chorus III with a k-510 horn? Now that would be awesome!!

 

That would be the ported 396 minus the passive ---? Awesome might already exist ?!

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