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What would do...


Schu

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11 hours ago, Schu said:

Lets say the jubilees are $100, I can get these particular Klipschorns for $80... (Jubiless are another 20%) and that is pretty close in price to me.

To me the Jubes are more than 20% better then the Khorn.

11 hours ago, Schu said:

They sound quite spectacular in my listening space (25x40).

Either would sound good in that space, but especially the jubs, easy choice for me.

All of this is considering you can live with the look, or customize a little if needed, I found I love the look of that horn.

 

Let me explain a little, I do not have Jubes but the same top half and the bottom is closer to a Jube than anything else out there, with that said.

About 5 years ago after having the 402 horns for a few years I wondered if my new favorite was really that good, or was it just a new different sound that attracted me ?

I have some split LaScala tops with new AA crossovers so I thought a good test would be to switch the 402 horns for the LaScala tops and just run in stereo with one of my favorite receivers a HK 930. Using one of my MWM bass bins on each side for bass I tried it. I was really just comparing the Jube top with the Klipschorn top, it took about 20 seconds to realize I made the right choice with the 402 horn, better all the way around, easily. The 402 was wide open, wall to wall sound, the 400 horn was much more direct. With your eyes closed you can easily point to where the horns are with the LaScala or khorn, not nearly as open sounding as the jube. IMO 

 

I left it like that until the next day, (out of respect, I guess) and switched it back, couldn't take it anymore. In the right room Klipschorns can sound great, but honestly just not as good as a Jube.

 

When we were trying to find our "last" speakers I was thinking Khorns, we went Indy for a Pilgrimage and we got to hear a few forum members different rooms with Khorns and we came home more confused as what to get. Mostly because every room sounded completely different, I guess because  the Khorn is so room dependent for it's sound.

The first time the combination we have was played together my wife and daughter was there, after half of the first song the both turned to me and said "that's what we want", and it was one speaker playing mono.

 

I am one of the least technical people here, I set it up with a pre-set active crossover and never touched it again.

This is a big deal, don't rush, consider everything and try to get some listening time with both if possible.

Good luck

 

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50 minutes ago, Schu said:

That's what I am being pitched...

I do have all the amps I need for Jubilees, bel canto for the bass bin and vrds for the 402. I am thinking VRDs are a waste in an active circuit.

I would say one of the best khorns made and very pretty, but to me still an easy choice. :D

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10 minutes ago, dtel said:

This is a big deal, don't rush, consider everything and try to get some listening time with both if possible.

What speakers are the best, regardless of if it's D, SS, Tube, passive, active, etc... to you? I'm getting old(er), but head room in both directions makes a difference. :D

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27 minutes ago, Schu said:

I did start this thread to talk to folks who have crossed this bridge... and I have LSii's and don't need a saw.  :lol:

This isn't a klipschorn vs jubilee thread from a performance perspective, but a thread to see if there is perhaps another criteria to consider... perhaps cost vs return, room size vs large complex pro system, diminishing returns... things like that. From a purely performance aspect, the winner is clear.

 

You had an active/VRD system? If you are inserting another active circuit that is digital in nature between the tubes and the driver, isn't that a huge waste of a good amplifier?

If your main criteria is what will sound the best, as you say, there is but one choice.

 

I'd your question is whether it is worth the extra 20 percent to go for Jubes, in my opinion they are worth more than the typical 3 or 4x what a pair of good used Khorns would run.  Couple that with being able add an 1802 later on you can use it for anything.  HT, 2 channel, whatever.

 

What is it going to primarily be used form. HT, 2 ch?

 

You won't need to worry about diminishing returns until you get to the point of upgrading drivers, center and sub options.

 

 

  If you have other criteria maybe looks/WAF, space concerns (which doesn't appear to be a problem) or something else I can't help you with that, it is just too subjective.

 

I have VRDs for 402s and McIntosh solid state on LF with active crossover. 

 

I think you are operating under the mistaken assumption that a separate active crossover somehow changes the sound of your amp, adds coloration, etc.  A good active crossover won't do that.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Schu said:

I think dtel convinced me... unless I can get the 60th's for under 4500$, I don't think I am a player for klipschorns.

Do you have 2 good corners?  Just one, and thus the reason for enclosed backs?  EDIT: I see from previous post you do, then you are golden.

 

What sub(s) are you running now?  That can be an issue, a good fit for subs with Jubes.

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I am a Klipschorns fan so my opinion is a little bias,if I had the chance to get a deal on a pair 60th anniversary,my reason would be they rarely cone on market used and if you decide to sell them you can.I am sure the jubilee's are a great speaker and provides life like sound ,I want my speakers to sound good and look good too and to me the 60th anniversary Klipschorns do both.

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2 hours ago, Schu said:

I have to be honest... it's the active XO, added equipment and additional complexity that is the issue for me.

I understand the customizable nature of active is the flavor of the week... it's unfortunate for my situation that klipsch doesn't offer a passive option that takes into account bass bin timing. They seem to offer many many passive options for other "Professional" direct radiating models that use the 402 and 510.

The direct radiating makes it possible to use passive.  You don't have the time alignment issues to deal with.  Fully hornloaded LF creates the time alignment issues and makes the passive options much more limited, and very expensive.  

 

@Deang can build you a set.of passives but I think he will tell you that would he in the thousands.

 

It isn't that complex, we can get you the settings.  If I can do it, anyone can (seriously).

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Ya'll don't forget....he's already got a pair of LaScalas.  He can jump to a (potential) end goal (Full Jubilee's) or he can take steps along the way (JubeScala)

 

He can get an active (though I think a passive exists for the K69 driver?) and put/place/slap the K402 on top of his LaScala bin.  That will cost him what??  something like... let's (guess) and say $2,500'ish.  Add another $1,500 (guessing) for a good active and he might find himself done.  He already loves the sound of his LaScalas.  I think those of us who've heard the 402 know what kind of step up it will give him.

 

Heck Schu...  keep in mind the 402 alone is larger in height/width than the entire LaScala speaker.

 

I'm all for someone jumping into (what I feel would be) their end game....  Schu strikes me as more reserved than that so the JubeScala would be a way for him to improve his top end while knowing later on, he'd always have an option of improving his bottom end (swap LaScala for Jube bass bin)

 

Schu....  if you ever decide to go active, know that I went from passive to active overnight, made my own wires (and will admit to cross/wiring a couple of them).  I did this with ZERO experience doing these things and other than the crossed wires, was successful first time out.

 

It's not as complex as it sounds....it's really a matter of gathering the correct ingredients and putting them together.  You don't have to create anything if you don't want to.  Just plug/program and play.

 

Side note:  I'd take the K402 with standard Klipsch driver (K69 in my case, I forget current drivers number) against the rest of their lineup.  In other words, the TAD driver, great as it is, is just the icing on the cake.  You are already making a significant improvement with the stock horn/driver alone, the TAD isn't 'required' to get a huge improvement in sound.

 

 

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One downside of going passive...  if someone ever decided to upgrade their driver to say, a TAD....  then the passive is going to need some reconfiguring ($$$ but I don't know how much).  An active allows you to reprogram & be done in minutes.

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35 minutes ago, richieb said:

I don't believe the price of the Crites Jubilee crossovers is in the thousands? Or in your opinion, is Dean the only option for Jubilee passives? 

No, not at all. I'm not familar with Bob's passives, they may be from the schematic that Roy did as an option.  

 

The passives I heard were quite, quite good.  Over the top Good, and my recollection is the parts alone "would be in the $1000's." 

 

That was my original plan, but the active that became available, which have been even improves upon since that time, didn't justify the expense for me.

 

The only way for someone to really know is to bi-amp or tri-amp with a good active and compare with passive to see what their impressions are.

 

For the vast majority the preference is the active (probably because of the ability to precisely time align).  That makes a huge audible difference that most, if not all, can hear.  You can punch that in and out with most active crossovers for  a quick A and B comparison.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

What approach did you take to tame the time alignment issue? Or can you get it close enough with the right passive design? 

 

To date, nothing. And I do not know how close Bobs designs get. I only make the assumption that like Bobs "standard" Heritage designs his Jube passives are well thought out. I will have a dx38 in the next couple weeks and will only then be able to confirm the positives everyone speaks on. My plan is one of my Nelson Pass Class A amps on the 402 and Wyred 400 watt Class D mAmps on the bins. I'm more apprehensive than anxious with the înstall but I may as well find what, if any, I'm leaving on the table. 

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8 hours ago, richieb said:

 

To date, nothing. And I do not know how close Bobs designs get. I only make the assumption that like Bobs "standard" Heritage designs his Jube passives are well thought out. I will have a dx38 in the next couple weeks and will only then be able to confirm the positives everyone speaks on. My plan is one of my Nelson Pass Class A amps on the 402 and Wyred 400 watt Class D mAmps on the bins. I'm more apprehensive than anxious with the înstall but I may as well find what, if any, I'm leaving on the table. 

At least will be able to revert if the AB isn't what you anticipated.

 

To be honest, I could get an active now and try it out on my LSii's...

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53 minutes ago, Schu said:

So maybe I had the wrong impression... is it: source>preamp>xilica>amps?

I was under the initial impression that the xilica went last, after the amplification.

 

Ya that is the order for configuration.

 

I have my sources into my Sonic Frontiers Line1 preamp... into Xilica XP4080... into Classe CA-150 (bass bins)

                                                                                                                                         ... into Triode Labs 2A3 amp (402)

 

With an active system, that is one of the advantages vs passive, your amplifiers only are needing to deal with the specific frequency

that the active Xover is feeding each amplifier.

For my 3-4 wpc 2A3 amp, it is only being asked to produce the midrange and up... more than enough power for the 402s!

 

I am guessing your Ref500 on the bass cabinets and then your VRDs on the 402s would be a nice set up.

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1 hour ago, Schu said:

So maybe I had the wrong impression... is it: source>preamp>xilica>amps?

I was under the initial impression that the xilica went last, after the amplification.

Schu,

 

That's correct. PM me if you want a smoking deal on a new Xilica. I bought one from @MetropolisLakeOutfitters and decided not to go that route. 

 

Mark

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