graydy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Help...wondering why my ne r28f towers sound bad with vintage Marantz audio.I have a very nice vintage 2 channel system and for the life of me I cannot get these speakers to sound good, they sound empty in the bass and no mid and very bright top. I have 40 yr old dynaco a25 and they sound much better, that's with everything in system being the same. any help would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Do you have or know someone with another pair of speakers to try with the marantz to see if they sound bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 How are they connected in back? Do you have the jumpers in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graydy Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 connected directly to each monoblock with 12 g wire and banana plugs.Ive checked and rechecked everything and cant get them to sound good. They have about 110 hrs on them, thinking they needed a good break in to open up.I got these as a replacement for another pair of speakers that popped a tweet, different brand made by klipsch, they gave me these instead of repairing others. I'm stumped on how a 40 yr old speaker can sound sooo much better than these new ones.Are these not very good for a 2 channel set up and just for home theater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graydy Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 not anyone with the same modle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graydy Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 yes jumpers are there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 What speakers did these replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The symptom you reported that is the biggest mystery to me is "no mid." I don't have a clue what's causing that. They should be fine for two channel. I assume you can see the woofer cones moving in and out. Are the two speakers in phase? Klipsch does have a reputation for being a bit bright, but my understanding is that this isn't something that shows up in an anechoic chamber test. It may be that they are just bright compared to some other popular speakers. They use horn tweeters/mids, which are more revealing than the usual dome tweeters or cone tweeters. They are also (usually) lower in distortion, with fewer "side bands." Here is a sample of PWK's research on the subject from just about when your A25s were newly on the market. See the graphs. http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeaker_papers/klipsch_modulation_distortion_article_1.pdf The Klipsch company is still applying those principles, in your case to the tweeter/midrange. Try putting each speaker deep into a corner, but with something absorbent of high frequencies placed on each side wall of the corner, starting where a yardstick placed flat on the front surface of the cabinet touches the wall, extending 2 feet out from that, at the height of the horn, reaching above it and below it, to prevent early and close midrange/treble reflections from being reflected from the wall. If you don't have acoustical pads, try with fluffy towel material tripled or quadrupled while you see if it helps. Unless you have a full carpet, make sure you have throw rugs on the floor where the sound from the horn will bounce off and reach your ears at the main listening position. You want the bass to be reflected from the walls and floor to reinforce it. The bass won't be affected by the absorbing material. Corner placement may increase the bass by up to 6 dB. The A25 is a wonderful speaker. It beat out several speakers J Gordon Holt put up against it in 1969 for purposes of his Stereophile review. He said, if anything, it had a bit too much bass at the bottom (if I remember correctly at 80 Hz and below; it probably rolled off below 40 Hz -- most speakers did, then). His review should be in this set: http://www.updatemydynaco.com/documents/DynacoReviews.pdf I would expect the r28f to reveal a little bit more detail and texture in the music, and what PWK called "the inner voices of the orchestra," than the A25. The A25's tweeter was not as remarkable as its midrange and bass. I have 10 Klipsch speakers in my home (but not the Reference line), and none of them sound too bright, compared to the orchestras I've played in or heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graydy Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) great reply, speaker they replaced was energy cf 50 connousure that was a great speaker. As for speaker placement, I have tried all positions with treatment, rear and side walls are treated with diy panels.I am using 10 inch klipsch sub with the speakers as well.The brightness I can control with tone controls on preamp, when I try control for mid bass its either muddy or just not there, bass is smooth but just not as precise as I'm used to. Don't get me wrong they are a fine speaker. As for power I'm running 2 maeantz monoblocks, at 125 watts each, so I don't think I'm getting unwanted distortion, not hammering these speaks. Room is 26x22.Guesss I'm just used to the laid back sound of the a25, Ill keep playing them, maybe ill get used to them.Or they will be used as fronts for ht, they actually sound nice with my onkyo receiver for movies and streaming, but with turntable and nad cd and vintage audio it just seems something missing, ill figure it out!! Edited December 18, 2017 by graydy update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummerdesign Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Glad to read that I am not alone in 'muddy...missing mid-range'... The R28F speakers arrived this week. I hooked them up to my 200 watt (100 per channel) stereo receiver and was fully prepared to grin. No grin appeared. While the Klipsch R28F towers have a very bright horn and a decent lower end, there is no mid-range. So I really wanted to grin...and kept throwing music through them, also adjusting the bass and treble controls on the receiver to somehow find where these speakers would find happiness. Consider the music; all CD's well mixed such as Bowie Black Tie-White Noise, Beatles 2017 Sgt. Pepper, Neil Young Harvest Moon, Bowie Earthling, David Crowder Sunsets and Sushi, plus plenty of jazz, steel drums, acoustic and NOTHING has brought out the mid-range beyond a muddy mess. I tuned them up to where I could hear the music outside the house, doors closed. Ran them this way for about an hour. In all I have given the speakers maybe 4-5 hours of music and still the mid-range is a mess. When the music gets complex, the speakers get muddy..irritatingly so. This is not what I expected. . Just to be certain, I went to Best Buy/Magnolia and listened to the floor demos and the listening room speakers. They sound delightful, especially with the 10" powered sub. The fellow there advised me to give the R28F's plenty of 'break-in' time. I have doubts. My car audio sounds better than this. My old speakers sound better than these (replacing a well-aged set of 6 ohm 1981 JBL R133's that I had rebuilt by Jamac maybe 18 years back). Do I send them back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graydy Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 I now have over 200 hrs on mine. I had them paired with a 35 watt per channel tube amplifier, and they really sound nice. Midrange now is very nice.They actually sound very good with tubes. Now I'm back to my ss set up, working on the tube amp, and mids are a little better with more hrs on them. I would not have paid full pop for these 28s for my everyday Marantz gear, but i got mine at no cost.All i can say is try different room placement, the 28s are ok in my home theatre set up, but for dedicated 2 channel set up, I'm not happy at all with these. But like i said very nice with tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummerdesign Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 An update of sorts... It is week number 3 with these r28f speakers. Consider that I have an Onkyo tx-8270 receiver, an Onkyo 8030 CD player, an amazing turntable and all new wiring. This is a brand new system. And yet, I cannot make these speakers sound good. All of the hours trying to break them in with different kinds of music have been to no avail. Seems I have to send them back. It is a bummer. When you cannot hear certain passages of music because they either get muddy or harsh there is a problem. Time to find something that will sound good. Dang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Did you check all the settings in your receiver to make sure it's configured correctly? I don't know your exact receiver but many have automatic sound processing dsps and such that I always turn off for purer sound. Also if you're not running a subwoofer make sure your speakers are set to Large or Full. Never hurts to check that + is to + and - is to - as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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