Vasubandu's terrifying build thread

[vasubandu]

I am totally blown away by all of the help that people here have given me. This seems to be a very special place.  

 

About 15 years ago,  I became interested in high quality audio after I heard a high end setup playing music at a store here in Seattle.  When I found out that the CD player was $2,000, my interest became more thoretical than practical, but after I found Audiogon, I realized a lot of people wanted what was new and exciting, so I could get what was great and yesterday for a good price.  I ended up mostly with Paradigm speakers, but I am not sure why.  I traded my way up to a system with Studio 100 towers, some huge studio center and Studio 20 surrounds.  I was all a nice match for our 60 inch Pioneer plasma.  And then I saw the Paradigm Millennia and fell in love.  I was not smart enough at the time to realize the compromises that would have to be made, and I traded "up" to get 2 MIllennia towers and 3 others (30s I thing) for the center and surround.  I never really wanted to admit what a letdown they were, so 12 years later we still have them.  Now that the prices of 4K Tvs has come down so far, I decided to renovate the sytem.  My wife and boys (15 and 12) watch TV, and my boys would play video games if it worked.  I don't watch TV myself, so this is an exercise in learning something new.

 

Our TV sits at the back of a 10X6 foot alcove at the end of a 24X14 foot room.  So the TV box is 10X20.  We sit at the far end about 18 feet away. I decided to get the biggest TV I could, but there is a door to an office in the wall where the TV is, limiting me to about 6 feet with width.  I was going to go for an 82 inch Samsung, but it is 72 inches wide, which would leave no room for a speaker.  But a 75 inch TV would be 66 inches wide, leaving me with a QLED Samsung and a better model than the 82 inch I could afford.

 

My plan was to repeat the mistake I made with the Millennia.  Definitive and Martin Logan now have on-well speakers that a just two inches deep but give you full home theater sound.  Supposedly.  I can't believe that I was really going to do that.  They don't even have dedicated center speakers. I was also interested in Klipsch, and from Klipsch learned about Atmos.  And so it was that I came here looking for some general advice about Klipsch for home theater, and boy did I get it.

 

One thing led to another, and I mentioned that a pair of RF-7 were available locally for $1,000, which I was told was a good deal, and then I planned to match them with an RC-64 ii center and RP-250S surrounds, when I was told that I was making a huge mistake, and that those RF-7s needed their RC-7 and RS-7 friends.  Party of me felt like this was a giant step backwards to speakers that were made 20 years ago, and part of me remembered those wonderful huge Paradigm speakers.  It would be much easier to but some RP-2780F towers and fill it out with the current speakers.  

 

At the same time, I really don't think that they have revolutionized speakers over the last 20 years, and I have the space for the 7 monsters.  Besides, it sounds like fun.  SO I now have arranged, but now received the RF-7 towers,  RC-7 center, and RS-7 surrounds.  Amazingly, the center and surrounds are from members here who are local.  

 

My receiver is a Denon AVR-2807 that has to be 15 years old. I need a new one that will support a 5.1.4 system with Atmos and that will convert ordinary media to Atmos.  I understand at least that can be done.  So far, I am focused on the Denon AVR-X4300H, but I am not sure if it is the best for the Atmos setup.  I have up to a $1,000 budget and prefer used, so I have some flexibility.

 

The Atmos speakers really have me confused.  The RP-140SA is more expensive than the R-14SA, which seems backwards.  But I am mostly concerned whether either it big enough to compete with the rest of my speakers.  I would think that any bookshelf speaker should work, but, I have a lot to learn.

 

My speaker wires run through conduits in my walls, but they do not not have a lot of extra room.  Monoprice has 12AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable that has 4 color-coded wires in a single enclosure.  I read something here about crosstalk, but the consensus seemed to be that it was not a problem.  If that works, it would make life easy.

 

I expect to get the speakers and TV the first week of January.  The Atmos speakers will come when I figure it out and find them, as will the receiver.  

 

I am really interested to know what I am doing wrong.  Feel free to pile on.  

 

 

[Scrappydue]

Can you go in ceilings for atmos? Modules are ok but they aren’t made to keep up with 7’s in my

opinion. 

[vasubandu]

Thaks @Scrappydue that was what worried me.  I think I will leave the Atmos for version 1.1 of the system and see about ceilings.  That will make it cheaper and easier.  The joists run two ways in the room, and I have to figure that out, but from what everyone tells me, the 7s are going to be overwhelming, and I don't see the purpose of adding a whisper from Atmos.  Makes sense,

[Youthman]

3 hours ago, vasubandu said:

At the same time, I really don't think that they have revolutionized speakers over the last 20 years

That is a very good assessment.

 

I'm excited to watch this threat progress...but only if there are some pics along the way.  LOL

[Youthman]

Photos of your room will also help us as we try and offer suggestions.  Also, adding your system info to your Signature will help us as well.

[vasubandu]

Thanks. I need to do something about that signature page. I will get that done in the next day or two.

[vasubandu]

Hey I put up pictures of the current setup.  I hope I did it right.  

And here is the layout I have to work with.  First is just the floow plan.  Second is the layout we have now and then thir is an alternative I am thinking about where we would move the TV to a different wall.  

 

 

 

[vasubandu]

OK, here is where I am so far.

 

TV

 

     First, we need a new TV.  I was dead set on getting an 82-86 inch set, but with the new layout plan, we will be only 11 feet instead of 17 from the TV, and I am not sure if that would be too big.  Big would be good, and maybe that will work.  Crutchfield says "For 1080p HDTVs, we suggest a viewing distance between 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 times the screen's diagonal measurement. You can sit even closer to a 4K Ultra HD TV — 1 to 1-1/2 times the screen diagonal."  So that would mean a 75 inch is 9-15 feet for 1080p  and 6-9 feet for 4K.  For an 82-86 inch TV is would be 10-20 feet 1080p and 7-10 feet for 4K.  Assuming that this is right, I get the feeling that the larger size would be fine. The options are:

 

     LG 86UH9500LG 86UH9500 86 inch  $2,400*

     LG 86SJ9570  86 inch  $2,400

     Samsung UN82MU8000FXZA  82 inch  $2,500**

     SAMSUNG UN85JU7100F 85"   $1,800

     

Or I could go with picture quality and 75" 

      SAMSUNG QN75Q7FAMF

From research so far, it looks like the Samsung UN82MU8000FXZA 82" and the LG  86SJ9570 86" are the best. with an edge to Samsung.  I just can't tell if the newer advances are worth downsizing.  Both the Samsung and the LG are 2017 models. so I am inclined to doubt that QLED is necessary.

 

Speakers

 

I have the speakers locked up and should have them this week.

 

     RF-7 Towers        $1,000

     RC-7 Center         $  400

     RS-7 Surrounds  $  400

 

Speaker total            $1,800

 

Receiver

 

     I was going to go for a Denon AVR-X4300H for $800, but I think I have lined up a Yamaha RX-A2060 for $750.  I think the Yamaha is a better receiver, but I still need to do my research and get some input here.

 

Subwoofer

 

     I can't believe the mean things that people said about my Paradigm SW2200.  Not just here, but other places too.  Although I have to say that I value the advice here a lot more.  I get the feeling that SVS is the answer to all subwoofer questions, and I have read that a lot. Which SVS remains a questions.  At the moment there are two locally: an SB13 Ultra for $1,200 and a PB2-Plus for $600.  Then again, there is a PC-12 for $325. SO I have a lot of learning to do on the subwoofer point.

 

Raising funds

 

     As part of this I need to figure out how to sell my existing stuff.  I have 2 Paradigm Millennia 300 and 3 20's.  Plus the SW2200 subwoofer.  I guess I could list it all on Audiogon or somewhere else, but I have no idea what its true condition is and what it might be worth.  SO feel free to fire away with ideas.

[vasubandu]

Wow this really is coming together nicely now.  The guy who was going to sell me the Yamaha RX-A2060 for $750 just dropped his price to $650.  And the guy with the PB2 Plus dropped from $600 to $500.  So altogether that means that I can get new speakers, subwoofer and receiver for $2,950.  Once I can collect all the parts, we can start playing with the pieces and then bring the TV into a complete setup.  Maybe I can get a new remote somehow for $50.  This has been a wonderful experience, and so many of you have really helped me.  I appreciate it.

[wvu80]

25 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

Maybe I can get a new remote somehow for $50.

Here's the #1 seller on Amazon, and I saved you ten bucks off your budget amount! 

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Infrared-Universal-Programmable/dp/B004OVECU0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1514506538&sr=8-3&keywords=logitech+remote

 

Did you decide on a center?  The RC-64 would be a great match for the RF-7's.  FYI I own the RC-64.

[vasubandu]

Well, @wvu80 we have a bunch of those around the house and they never last.  I finally broke down and tracked down a Harmony 900, which Logitech practically pretends does not exist.  It is a fine piece of equipment with some absent features because it is so old.  So maybe an Elite.  Right now I could get a Harmony One locally for $20 or a Harmony Ultimate One IR for $60, but then the price would have to come down on the center.  I don't see any Harmony Elites locally which is a good sign that they may work.  Even on eBay, I don't see any under $100.  That is actually kind of amazing.  Usually there are enough people who can't figure out where the batteries go and give them away. Must be a great device.

 

Now as far as a center, I have settled on an RC-7 from one of our friends here.  When I found out that it has 8 inch woofers, I knew I had to give it a try.  That brings up a point.  My right surround is going to have to be very high because it will be over the path to the couch.  Do I need to angle it down, and which way do you point those kinds of surround speakers?  I'll have to look that up.

[USNRET]

surrounds should be as C METRI CAL as possible .

[vasubandu]

I have been reading about the placement.  The first choice seems to be opposite corners, which we could do, but one would be behind the couch.  So we might have to try the 2 between R and L.  That would work with the new TV placement. And Ed at SVS said I could start with one.

[wvu80]

3 hours ago, vasubandu said:

Now as far as a center, I have settled on an RC-7 from one of our friends here.  When I found out that it has 8 inch woofers, I knew I had to give it a try.  That brings up a point.  My right surround is going to have to be very high because it will be over the path to the couch.  Do I need to angle it down, and which way do you point those kinds of surround speakers?

The RC-7 should be fine. it's an MTM design and of of the most desirable centers in the Klipsch line. For me, I love the MTM sound.  I have some CF-4's which is a 2-way  MTM with two 12" woofers.  I like the RC-64 because I'm also a fan of a lot of little woofers. 

 

 

 

[TasDom]

2 hours ago, vasubandu said:

My right surround is going to have to be very high because it will be over the path to the couch.  Do I need to angle it down, and which way do you point those kinds of surround speakers?  I'll have to look that up.

My RS-7's are 9 ft. up the wall. I also have a large entry that I had to mount above. I have mine angled down toward the main listening area and really like the effects they give from that height. I made some mounts with large gate hinges and a chain to adjust the angle as needed.

The RS-7's are excellent surround speakers!

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/680426-klipsch-owner-thread-845.html#post23651742

[vasubandu]

Thanks @TasDom that is a big help.  I just sold my MIllenia speakers for $1500 so that helps move things along.

[vasubandu]

Here i will try to show you. The bookshelf is right where I will have 2 feet between the end of the couch and the wall.  A heating duct runs right up to that spot, and the surround could not go under the duct.  So the only logical place for it is in the space after the end of the duct and at the same level.  I could be pointed down or level, but it is going to have to be up bear the seven foot ceiling.

[Youthman]

30 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

I just sold my MIllenia speakers for $1500 so that helps move things along.

That was fast!

[vasubandu]

@Youthman. well they were worth more, arguably, but life is to short to be getting the best deal day in and day out.

And wow.  You have 3 completely different speaker systems talking to each other in your home theater.  LaScalas for whatever they bring, then the workmen RC62 surrounds trying to keep up and sitting around the edges a bunch of old geezers for subwoofers.  I guess that must work but it must have been hell to set up.  And does your projector really replace a bright TV?

[TasDom]

9 hours ago, vasubandu said:

Here i will try to show you. The bookshelf is right where I will have 2 feet between the end of the couch and the wall.  A heating duct runs right up to that spot, and the surround could not go under the duct.  So the only logical place for it is in the space after the end of the duct and at the same level.  I could be pointed down or level, but it is going to have to be up bear the seven foot ceiling.

Easy decision (for me anyways) get rid of or move the bookshelf.