Schiit Saga to Add Remote to a System?

[rplace]

Forgetting about cost or value for the moment. If all you cared about was adding a remote to you system would the Schitt Saga do the job in passive mode after your existing preamp? Could it be put in before the preamp? Would the location matter?

 

http://www.schiit.com/products/saga

 

Thoughts on pros/cons for another set of cables in the system? Any downside in noise/distortion?

 

Any other gear out there to fit the remote requirement that is totally passive? I saw mention of Peachtree iNova but that is way to complicated IMO for the task of remote only.

 

[Hasty]

Give it a whirl.  The affordability is there, and they make good equipment.  

[jbsl]

Just got my Schiit Saga Tue.  Also bought a CBS Hytron 5692 6SN7 tube for it.  From all the reviews  and what I have heard so far on the Saga tube stage is not a huge sound difference from the passive stage.  After the CBS Hytron 5692 has 2-3 months then I can listen if the tube stage sounds more of a noticeable difference to the passive stage. 

 

I run a HDMI cable from my Sony smart tv into my Oppo 103 and then to my tube dac.  My Oppo has Pandora,Tidal and Youtube (I usually watch/listen to youtube on the Sony tv) into my system sounds very good.  I then run the Saga into a 15 watt EL 84 tube stereo amp and out to Chorus iis.  

 

After two days and around 10 hours on the Saga it is starting to sound very good.  For someone on a budget this preamp is a great deal if your equipment matches up with the saga.   

 

So far very pleased with the Saga!

[rplace]

Thanks for the input @jbsl slightly more helpful than give it a try . I too have read the tube buffer does not add much. Also read that something beyond the stock tube helps.

 

However I'm purely interested in the passive side of things. I don't need a preamp, I just want to add remote volume control to my existing preamp/system. I'm surprised with all the vintage gear in use somebody has not addressed the remote volume issue in some stand alone form. For my set up I'm talking purely vinyl to a tube preamp. I have an external phono stage for the turntable so the preamp sees line levels.

 

This is my setup without remote volume. Turntable >> Phono Stage >> tube preamp >> Tube Mono Blocks. How best to sit on my butt and control the volume; sort of a long stick with bubble gum on the end?

 

Since posting this I've also come across this from a Polish site. They guy tells me no problem adding it after the preamp and before the amps, but pretty pricy as just a remote control.

http://www.khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

 

At this point I'm really just looking for input on the effects of something between the pramp and amps. I find it hard to believe I'm the first person looking to crack this nut. I did find this interesting solution to the problem.

 

[CECAA850]

That's ingenious and hilarious all at the same time.

[dtr20]

That's brilliant! 

[rplace]

1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

That's ingenious and hilarious all at the same time.

 

1 hour ago, dtr20 said:

That's brilliant! 

 

Oh now we get some interest in my topic. Where were you guys before the pictures? Seriously, nobody needed remote volume for old gear before me. I've been looking into the Creek OBH-10 and 12. Seems to be fine with mid-fi gear but sounds poorly with better gear. Still this rubber band thing might have legs. Just put my preamp on top of an old piece of equipment and connect them.

[dtr20]

I have been interested in this, my remote right now is to ask my wife to adjust it. Usually only works if I have our cat laying on me. I have been thinking about buying a newer McIntosh preamp for this exact reason.

[mikebse2a3]

23 minutes ago, rplace said:

I've been looking into the Creek OBH-10 and 12. Seems to be fine with mid-fi gear but sounds poorly with better gear.

 

I’ve used the OBH-10 in several systems and it was better than some preamps in the $2000 range mostly noticeable in clarity and high frequency edgeness. Like all passive they can be system sensitive when it comes to optimum compatibility.

 

miketn

[rplace]

2 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

I’ve used the OBH-10 in several systems and it was better than some preamps in the $2000 range mostly noticeable in clarity and high frequency edgeness. Like all passive they can be system sensitive when it comes to optimum compatibility.

 

miketn

 

Great to get some actual user feedback, thanks. I can't find a 10/12 for sale used on ebay/audiogon and they don't seem to be made anymore. My interest is not in active vs passive preamp but more a way to add remote volume control. So far a passive preamp with remote after my active preamp seems to make sense in my head but I'm looking for somebody to talk me off the ledge or give me a push. I'm thinking there has to be a con beyond another set of cables in the mix or I would have found others doing it.

[mikebse2a3]

6 minutes ago, rplace said:

So far a passive preamp with remote after my active preamp seems to make sense in my head but I'm looking for somebody to talk me off the ledge or give me a push. I'm thinking there has to be a con beyond another set of cables in the mix or I would have found others doing it.

 

I’ve done it that way in the past and never felt I was giving up anything in sound quality. 

 

I consider the ability to adjust sound level from the listening position a necessary requirement because individual songs seem to have an optimum playback level.

 

So I guess I would be someone who would push you over the edge 👍

 

miketn

[CECAA850]

On 1/2/2018 at 3:15 PM, rplace said:

Could it be put in before the preamp?

Use it instead of your preamp.

[rplace]

Just now, CECAA850 said:

If you only need 2 outputs, use it instead of your preamp.

 

Yea, I'm starting to rethink my need for a preamp at all....problem is I just bought one and waiting for it to get here. This is what started my remote quest. I've never had/heard a passive preamp and having a MC cartridge needed the gain. Now I have a external phono stage that can handle both MM/MC so I got a tube pre without a phono input.

 

At first I got the impression that a passive preamp while providing lots of clarity and transparency lost some dynamic range. I read several users loved their passive pres but always went back to an active ones. More research seems to suggest that is not always the case.

 

This actually look like a solution targeted at my desire/needs but their idea of affordable and mine seem to differ a bit http://www.placetteaudio.com/remote_control.htm Nice review on StereoPhile https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/604placette/index.html 

[Shiva]

I too, consider a remote control a necessity,  my couch inertia hard to overcome once planted, and purchase accordingly.  My first tube integrated did not have a remote, but I had an Oppo and used its own built in volume control to adjust when playing discs, though I had to get up for anything else playing, I still remember the pain.  My solution was to sell it. See-ya.   Having learned, my second purchase did, the ASL MG-si-15, which came with a nice remote control made of wood and had it for a number of years.

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/the-antique-sound-lab-mg-si-15-dt-singleended-class-a-tube-integrated-amplifier

If I were to go tube again, I would look into something from PrimaLuna or Rogue, which have remote control function to start with. 

 

    

[CECAA850]

13 minutes ago, rplace said:

but their idea of affordable and mine seem to differ a bit

I never use low cost and $1000 in the same sentence regarding audio either.

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, rplace said:

At first I got the impression that a passive preamp while providing lots of clarity and transparency lost some dynamic range. I read several users loved their passive pres but always went back to an active ones. More research seems to suggest that is not always the case.

 

Input and output impedances of the sources as well as the amplifier input impedance all interact with the passive preamp which if not in an optimum range can lead to a feeling of less dynamics and slower pace of the music’s reproduction and while this is not irritating in itself it can lead to wanting a feeling of more drive to the reproduction of music over time.

 

miketn

[mikebse2a3]

I noticed the Schiit saga has a 10k input impedance so what ever you drive it with needs to be comfortable with that load.

 

miketn

[rplace]

22 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I noticed the Schiit saga has a 10k input impedance so what ever you drive it with needs to be comfortable with that load.

 

miketn

 

I need a bit more education on the whole impedance matching. I've been looking very hard at this http://www.khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html#remote with a few thoughts in mind. Worst case it is an expensive remote control for the tube pre. Medium case I can use it as passive pre only and put the tube amp aside once in a while, bonus get to see what a passive preamp is like. Best case I love the passive preamp set up, sell the active tube preamp and am ahead of the game on money. I see at the link above optional resistors with 10K-50K and another for 100K. My limited knowledge says you want to match impedance but I'm not really sure what that really means. How do I find out what my amps are? I also think it is more critical in a passive preamp than and active one, correct?

 

Any and all insight greatly appreciated.

[mikebse2a3]

8 hours ago, rplace said:

I see at the link above optional resistors with 10K-50K and another for 100K. My limited knowledge says you want to match impedance but I'm not really sure what that really means. How do I find out what my amps are? I also think it is more critical in a passive preamp than and active one, correct?

 

Usually the amplifiers manual/specifications will list the input impedance.

 

Yes matching impedance values are more critical when using a passive and long cable runs from passive to amplifiers are to be avoided.

 

Basically when you are using a passive volume control you are asking whatever you are driving it with (ie: CD Player, DAC, Pre-Amp, ...etc) to be able to maintain a voltage/current sufficient to drive the amplifier's input to a sufficient level to allow it to produce full power when needed.

 

The source driving the passive volume control sees a load that is the combination of the passive volume control combined with the impedance of the amplifier's impedance and this total load impedance value will vary between the value of the passive volume control or less depending on the position of the volume control.

 

As a general rule you want at least a factor of 10 to 1 on Input impedance to Output Impedance.

 

A 10K passive volume control is going to be harder for source devices to drive than a 25K or 50K for example. Tube based output stages of source equipment would generally be better with 25K or 50K passive volume controls in my experience.

 

I personally had one situation where I was using a DAC with a tube output stage driving a passive volume control of my own design which I could convert to either 25K or 50K impedance. The sound was very good with good clarity but was noticed over time to be lacking in dynamics and slow in pace/drive. I bought the Creek OBH-10 (which is 50K impedance) for the remote capability and installed it in place of my passive design (which was set at 25K at the time) and the clarity was excellent and the difference in dynamics and pace/drive was very noticeable and much better than my passive design (which had much higher quality parts). This made me convert my passive design to 50K impedance and then it was every bit the equal of the Creek in clarity, dynamics and pace/drive.

 

miketn

[allegro]

When I sold my DAC with volume control and replaced with a Yggdrasil I found the fixed 2V output too hot for my amp which limited the range of the 10K ohm Alps pot on my Kenzie amp. I tried several preamps costing from $150 to $1250 and wound up keeping the Schiit Saga. It is a bargain at the price especially being remote controlled. I found in my system that while passive mode was very good, active mode was even better as long as I replaced the stock tube which I felt was holding back the performance of the Saga in active mode.

 

The best performance/price tube I tried was a 1951 Sylvania 6SN7GT with three rivet holes. Using the $70 Sylvania switching from passive to active mode on the Saga did not change timbre of instruments or voices but did noticeably improve the soundstage and imaging, with more air. The Saga scales with more expensive tubes. I was able to win a 1940s Tung Sol 6SN7GT with round plates at auction and it is a step up from the Sylvania for me though at more than twice the cost of a good Sylvania.

 

The consensus seems to be active mode for Saga sounds better than passive using a good tube, while passive is better than active for the balanced Freya. Just as well as you would have four tubes to swap out.