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vasubandu

If you could have just one speaker for the rest of your life . . . .

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1 hour ago, garyrc said:

To get the full dynamic range of modern movies, you must get out of the 80s

Yep.  Back to 1946 to be precise.

As PWK said "What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier."

Dave

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1 hour ago, garyrc said:

To get the full dynamic range of modern movies, you must get out of the 80s, unless the power handling is huge, and the amplifier a behemoth.

 

What, did they invent new sounds?  A frequency unknown to mankind?  I don't know a lot, but I would argue that if you want the sound of current movies, then you cannot even think about  modern speakers because they are stickers you put on the wall.  I don't understand why speakers could not express the dynamic range of movies or music back then.  I mean, look at Klipsch.  Their big speaker is the RF-iii, which is just a new version of the RF-7 that appeared I don't know when but a long time ago.  I am not persuaded that speakers have really improved that much if at all.

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2 hours ago, vasubandu said:

 

What, did they invent new sounds?  A frequency unknown to mankind?  I don't know a lot, but I would argue that if you want the sound of current movies, then you cannot even think about  modern speakers because they are stickers you put on the wall.  I don't understand why speakers could not express the dynamic range of movies or music back then.  I mean, look at Klipsch.  Their big speaker is the RF-iii, which is just a new version of the RF-7 that appeared I don't know when but a long time ago.  I am not persuaded that speakers have really improved that much if at all.

 

Of course, by saying, "you must get out of the 80s," I meant out of the 80 to 90 dB sensitivity at 2.83V at 1 meter; you said you kept finding those inefficient speakers and couldn't "get out of the 80s."   Then Mallette riffed off of my admonition, and the meaning shifted.  He said "1946 to be precise" (the birth year of the first version of the Klipschorn).  The RF-7 would do fine with any movie (above its F3 -- the frequency at which it is - 3 dB).

 

It is precisely the old speakers, "back then" that could express the dynamic range of movies or music back then!  Or now.  Up until the introduction of small box "acoustiic suspension" speakers in the late '50s, speakers were pretty efficient.  Klipsch, JBL, Altec, or EV stayed efficient and most could easily handle and reproduce the dynamics of modern movies, above about 40 Hz.  Modern movies, on Blu-ray in the home, with DTS HD Master, or Dolby True Hi Fi, are designed to allow 105 dB peaks from each main speaker, and 115 dB from the subwoofer(s), at the main listening position, not at a measly 1 meter from the speaker.  No low sensitivity speaker could do that unless it would take a huge amount of power safely. 

 

There are, in a sense, some new sounds that have been "invented,"  e.g., bass a low as 10 Hz is used in some modern movies as Low Frequency Effects, whereas movies used to start to roll off at 40 Hz, or 30 Hz, at best for some 70 mm epics, except movies in something like SenseAround.

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7 minutes ago, garyrc said:

There are, in a sense, some new sounds that have been "invented,"  e.g., bass a low as 10 Hz is used in some modern movies as Low Frequency Effects, whereas movies used to start to roll off at 40 Hz, or 30 Hz, at best for some 70 mm epics, except movies in something like SenseAround.

Fully agree here.  Not sure there's anything acoustic below a 64' organ pipe, and I do not gear for that.  Settle for 16.5Hz for a 32' pipe.  But I experienced Sensearound, which I recall as good to 12Hz.  I was fully informed, and yet in "Earthquake," it was alarming.  No clue what the traveling equipment was at this point. But mee and everything shook.  Loved it.  

Dave

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3 minutes ago, Mallette said:

Fully agree here.  Not sure there's anything acoustic below a 64' organ pipe, and I do not gear for that.  Settle for 16.5Hz for a 32' pipe.  But I experienced Sensearound, which I recall as good to 12Hz.  I was fully informed, and yet in "Earthquake," it was alarming.  No clue what the traveling equipment was at this point. But mee and everything shook.  Loved it.  

Dave

 

They were Cerwin Vega horn-loaded effects speaker that we would call "subwoofers" today.  The size of the horns varied with the theaters.  They often required seats to be taken out, because a common place to put them was on the floor in the front.

 

I, too, would settle for 16.5 Hz.  The old Fox theater in San Francisco had a 32' pipe mounted horizontally up near the ceiling, with a net below it to catch the falling plaster!

 

Oh, vasubandu, I forgot to mention, you'll need a net. 

 

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29 minutes ago, garyrc said:

Of course, by saying, "you must get out of the 80s," I meant out of the 80 to 90 dB sensitivity at 2.83V at 1 meter; you said you kept finding those inefficient speakers and couldn't "get out of the 80s."  

 

And of course, I completely misunderstood you to mean the 1980s and picking on the ancient speakers that I have become fond of.

 

As to the point that you were actually  making, I got my own lesson when I suggested mixing and matching speakers for better sound.  I was not entirely serious, but as you know, when you pointed out the sensitivity differences in the speakers I randomly chose as a mix, I then went back looking for others that would be closed to my RC-7, and I couldn't find any. That was a real education for me.  It seems obvious enough why that is - they make totally different speakers today for flat screen TVs.  

 

So please accept both my apologies and my gratitude.  Things make a lot more sense now.

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13 hours ago, garyrc said:

The old Fox theater in San Francisco had a 32' pipe mounted horizontally up near the ceiling, with a net below it to catch the falling plaster!

I've been in places where not only did the building vibrate, but a short time after the performer would "pull out all the stops" and lean into it you actually feel the outflow from the pipes.  Incredible sensation.

Dave

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20 hours ago, vasubandu said:

 

And of course, I completely misunderstood you to mean the 1980s and picking on the ancient speakers that I have become fond of.

 

As to the point that you were actually  making, I got my own lesson when I suggested mixing and matching speakers for better sound.  I was not entirely serious, but as you know, when you pointed out the sensitivity differences in the speakers I randomly chose as a mix, I then went back looking for others that would be closed to my RC-7, and I couldn't find any. That was a real education for me.  It seems obvious enough why that is - they make totally different speakers today for flat screen TVs.  

 

So please accept both my apologies and my gratitude.  Things make a lot more sense now.

 

No problem.

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