vasubandu Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I am still new but slowly catching on. I need to run some speaker wire through a conduit in my wall, and I am going to have space constraints. Monoprice has a speaker wire with 2 pairs of wire in a single jacket. I would like to find one with 3 pairs, but I wonder about interference or other problems. Any enlightenment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I doubt you'll find one with three pair but it won't be hard to pull 3 pair of 2 wire cables all at once. Be sure you use wire rated for in wall use and use cable lube to help the pull. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Here is the typical in-wall 4-conductor wire: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=4039&seq=1&format=2 If you want to think outside the box, you could use Cat6 network cable. It's four pair of UTP unshielded twisted pair, in solid copper. The twisted pair reduces cross talk. The size is 23 awg, small by speaker standards. I don't know what difference the sold copper wire would make, if it would conduct better than a lot of little copper strands. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13565 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Here ya go:http://www.newworldproaudio.com/Bulk-Speaker-Cable_c_198.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, USNRET said: Here ya go: Thirteen awg, 3 pairs? And the price looks pretty good, too. Son of a gun, you learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I had some smaller ga flat 6 conductor at one time that could be rolled up round; still looking oh, I wouldn't worry about interference from different speaker wire channels; that comes from electrical power runs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 All that is very interesting and might work. If wire is wire, how about this? 250 feet of wire with 8 18 gauge copper wires in it rated for burial underground for $103.99 http://www.prowiresupply.com/18-8-sprinkler-cable-wire-18-gauge-paige/ Or for the truly insane, 250 feet of wire with 25 18 gauge wires for $430. That would be 12 connections, so it have your whole 7.2.4 system covered. http://www.prowiresupply.com/18-25-sprinkler-cable-wire-18-gauge-paige/ The bizarre thing is that they list that 8 wire unit as having a diameter of 0.29 inches, and the 25 wire one is only 0.355 inches. I could fit either of those in my conduit. Can you have too many speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, wvu80 said: If you want to think outside the box, you could use Cat6 network cable. It's four pair of UTP unshielded twisted pair, in solid copper. The twisted pair reduces cross talk. The size is 23 awg, small by speaker standards. I don't know what difference the sold copper wire would make, if it would conduct better than a lot of little copper strands. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13565 23 gauge wire has roughly 20 ohms of resistance per 1000ft. Typical 16 gauge speaker wire is 4 ohms per 1k. I'm using numbers based on solid conductor wire. I don't think Cat. 6 cable is meant to handle the current a speaker requires. Fortunately, looks like USNRET found just what the O.P. needs. 16 gauge wire is considered good for runs up to 100ft. . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 55 minutes ago, USNRET said: Here ya go:http://www.newworldproaudio.com/Bulk-Speaker-Cable_c_198.html I didn't see where it was rated for in wall or did I overlook it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, CECAA850 said: I didn't see where it was rated for in wall or did I overlook it? Like I look at those technicalities jeeze 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 @USNRET, that looks perfect and 13AWG would welcome. The one I found is 18 and I am iffy on that. My run would be around 30 feet. But if I went with 8 wires, the difference between 0.29 and 0.545 inch diameter would be huge in terms of working with it. Plus if I bought a 250 foot spool for $104, I would have tons to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, vasubandu said: @USNRET, that looks perfect and 13AWG would welcome. The one I found is 18 and I am iffy on that. My run would be around 30 feet. But if I went with 8 wires, the difference between 0.29 and 0.545 inch diameter would be huge in terms of working with it. Plus if I bought a 250 foot spool for $104, I would have tons to share. Be sure it is CL2 or CL3 rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Check this out. 100 feet of 8 conductor wire 12 gauge, 0.5 inches, $180 from Amazon. The key is "speaker snake wire" https://www.amazon.com/AEI-New-York-Professional-Conductor/dp/B00THEPL6S/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1515468212&sr=1-2&keywords=speaker+snake+wire 13 GAUGE 8 CONDUCTOR SPEAKER / SNAKE WIRE USA MADE HI END (100 Ft) $230 https://www.amazon.com/GAUGE-CONDUCTOR-SPEAKER-SNAKE-WIRE/dp/B00CYSHZI6/ref=sr_1_42?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1515468429&sr=1-42&keywords=speaker+snake+wire+100+feet AE1 12 GAUGE 8 CONDUCTOR SPEAKER SNAKE WIRE 100 FEET FT CABLE $144 https://www.hotbeatnewyork.com/products/ae1-12-gauge-8-conductor-speaker-snake-wire-100-feet-ft-cable-fast-shipping ProX Cables XC-8 COND-100FT - 12 Gauge 8 Conductor High Performance Cable 100 Ft. Roll $159 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D3NOE2Q/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3341940462&pd_rd_wg=jVx4O&pf_rd_r=PACJP26S1XT8287TM7PS&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-bottom-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B00D3NOE2Q&pd_rd_w=7muDx&pf_rd_i=speaker+snake+100+feet&pd_rd_r=99db6953-17bb-41fd-a8eb-a86419d8feb4&ie=UTF8&qid=1515468487&sr=1 100ft 14 GAUGE 8 Conductor pro audio snake wire amp amplifier speaker wire cable https://www.ebay.com/itm/100ft-14-GAUGE-8-Conductor-pro-audio-snake-wire-amp-amplifier-speaker-wire-cable-/302422825615?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1 Need to do some research, but this is doable. Thanks to @USNRET for the essential link to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yea, cause I need to make sure my speaker cables are rated for 150 volts so they don't start a fire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, USNRET said: Yea, cause I need to make sure my speaker cables are rated for 150 volts so they don't start a fire Yeah, I didn't want to encourage lawless behavior by advocating putting speaker wire behind a wall that is not up to code, but for me personally I wouldn't worry that much about it. The Plenum jacketed wire used behind walls is rated for slow burn, but if my speaker wires are on fire behind a wall, the way I look at it, I'm pretty much up the creek with bigger problems anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Can speaker wire start a fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, rebuy said: Can speaker wire start a fire? No but if you have a fire and your insurance adjuster sees wire not rated for in wall use you may have a fight on your hands. Why chance it if you know better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: No but if you have a fire and your insurance adjuster sees wire not rated for in wall use you may have a fight on your hands. Why chance it if you know better? That would be my only worry as well Carl although all of the cardboard stereo boxes in my attic may be a more realistic concern. Side note: I found out during an air conditioner install that my county 1) requires the A/C pad to be hurricane rated (the difference being it has a sticker on it and 2) replacing a toilet requires a $75 permit ...uh, last time I bought a toilet at a big box store they didn't require me to present a permit so how the heck would I know that. The inspector thought both were foolish. Back to the regular program of the OP's question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Fine, we will get wall rated speaker wire. Can't hurt. How about this bad boy? I know it is for cars, but they seem to have larger wire available. As long as I am doing it, why not overdo it? There is probably a good answer to that question. As in what is the ideal gauge for a 30 foot run? DNA SPEAKER CAR AUDIO PRO 10 GAUGE 10AWG 8 CONDUCTOR OXYGEN FREE- 30ft $70 https://www.ebay.com/itm/DNA-SPEAKER-CAR-AUDIO-PRO-10-GAUGE-10AWG-8-CONDUCTOR-OXYGEN-FREE-30ft-/372059232097?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, vasubandu said: As long as I am doing it, why not overdo it? There is probably a good answer to that question. As in what is the ideal gauge for a 30 foot run? Using a 12 awg Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) is overkill even at 100 feet. It's what I use even though 14 awg is plenty, even for 50' runs. Just make sure to get OFC and NOT CCA. CCA is the really cheap stuff like RCA branded speaker wire from Home Depot. OFC does not cost that much more, maybe ten dollars more for a hundred foot spool. From Monoprice.com: Quote Get the most out of your home audio system with high quality, oxygen-free, pure bare copper speaker wire from Monoprice! This speaker wire features two conductors made of high purity (greater than 99.95% pure), oxygen-free bare copper. Pure Bare Copper is a superior conductor to the copper clad aluminum (CCA) conductors used in most other inexpensive speaker wire. CCA is only about 68% as conductive as pure bare copper. This additional resistance is added to the impedance of your speakers and can negatively effect the sound. For the wire to have no audible effect, the total wire resistance should be no more than 5% of the lowest impedance of your speakers. Even speakers rated for a nominal 8-ohms, may dip to as low as 4-ohms at some frequencies, which further reduces the total cable resistance allowed in the wire. Using Pure Bare Copper speaker wire ensures that the total load put on the amplifier remains as close as possible to the impedance curve of your speakers. For example, a 16AWG 2-conductor Pure Bare Copper speaker wire has a total resistance of 0.803 ohms per 100 feet (both directions must be considered). By comparison, a 16AWG 2-conductor CCA speaker wire has a total resistance of 1.181 ohms per 100 feet. Assuming 4 ohms is the lowest impedance of your speakers, a speaker wire run can be no more 0.2-ohms total. 20 feet of 16AWG Pure Bare Copper would be 0.1606 ohms, well under the 0.2-ohm limit. On the other hand, 20 feet of 16AWG CCA would be 0.2362 ohms, well OVER the 0.2-ohm limit. https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=29420&seq=1&format=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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