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You gotta be sh*****ting me


vasubandu

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@jjptkd  I do hope you know I was joking.  But the question that I was really asking is the one that  @RoboKlipsch answered.  Given our appreciate for older speakers, what is it that would would make age a problem.  2 PB2000 would be less fun and interesting than the monster sub from hell, but as he says they would do the job just as well.  So it sounds like the assumption is that the beast would not offer anything that could not be had other ways.  The fact that it is in one unit does not really matter is subwoofers are omnidirectional and you cannot isolate the direction anyway.  SO I get that even if there is an appeal to the sub that ate Los Angeles.

 

His comment about "imagine trying to replace a 2500watt amp from a 15yo sub" is what really got my attention.  Maybe he has one and forgot to mention it, but I suspect that would border on impossible,  I never buy anything with the expectation that it will break, but I might make an exception to that for something I would expect to keep for decades.

 

So he has me thinking no, and for a reason, which itself is a change.

 

I wonder if he might be underestimating the difference between subs.  Call me crazy, but I have my crossover set to 120Hz because at the higher end of the range, it seems to me that it provides what I would call substantive sound instead of noise and vibration.  And that sound has an entirely different quality than what the Paradigm SW2000 produced at its max of 150.  I often juist turn by bypass off altogether. And that has me thinking of holding out and swapping for a pair of PC12 Plus with their 12-260Hz range.  16-250Hz range, PC2000 with 16-260Hz, PC 4000 at 16-200Hz, or that crazy PB 16 Ultra at 15-280.  I would get a kick out of exploring those unexplored higher areas, and I would love to see a 200Hz bypass. Wonder if anyone has one.

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7 hours ago, vasubandu said:

@jjptkd  I do hope you know I was joking.  

 

Yes

 

7 hours ago, vasubandu said:

So it sounds like the assumption is that the beast would not offer anything that could not be had other ways.  

 

Yes but I'm sure that sub if powered properly would perform probably at least as good as the one you have already, maybe even better?

 

7 hours ago, vasubandu said:

His comment about "imagine trying to replace a 2500watt amp from a 15yo sub" is what really got my attention.  Maybe he has one and forgot to mention it, but I suspect that would border on impossible, 

 

You do know that sub is passive right? It takes an external amplifier to run it and there are plenty to be had on the new and used market.

 

7 hours ago, vasubandu said:

I wonder if he might be underestimating the difference between subs.  Call me crazy, but I have my crossover set to 120Hz because at the higher end of the range, it seems to me that it provides what I would call substantive sound instead of noise and vibration.  And that sound has an entirely different quality than what the Paradigm SW2000 produced at its max of 150.  I often juist turn by bypass off altogether. And that has me thinking of holding out and swapping for a pair of PC12 Plus with their 12-260Hz range.  16-250Hz range, PC2000 with 16-260Hz, PC 4000 at 16-200Hz, or that crazy PB 16 Ultra at 15-280.  I would get a kick out of exploring those unexplored higher areas, and I would love to see a 200Hz bypass. Wonder if anyone has one.

 

I'm sure that B4 sub sounds extremely nice and plays really loud, how could it not? Subs are going to sound different even if they spec the same, the same is true with amplifiers and speakers. Really I don't know of any shortcut to finding what you like best out of any of this stuff without setting up a room and cycling stuff through it. For me, that has been part of the fun and honestly sometimes the thrill of the hunt is part of that fun, unless its a pair of Chorus 1's and over two years go by, then it just gets a little frustrating. When you find something you really like it sticks around while other parts of the system keep cycling until you finally what sounds best to you, in your space.

 

 

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@jjptkd As usual, thanks.  I am probably more one to try to do my research and find something that works and then let it be.  My Millenia say there for 10-12 years even though I was never all that happy with them.  That is why I am exploring all these options.  The cool thing about this area is that the latest and greatest is not necessarily the greatest.  It we were talking computers, it pretty much would be.  So I am trying to replace some of that experience with research, which is not easy when it comes to subjective impressions.  But subjective impressions from qualified and trusted people can go a long way, and I think that I have found many of those here.  

 

The more I think about, the more I think that ultimately, I will find making speakers the most satisfying part of this.  Once they are designed, I can build them - I have enough skill for that. But I have to learn about crossovers, and from what I have read, I think that I would be inclined towards digital crossovers.  Oddly, it does not seem like anyone has a better material to make cases than MDF.  I thought that the case played an acoustic role, but I am reading dead all over the place. Makes me wonder why subs are so heavy.

 

So the D4 Plus sounded like a ton of fun, but I could get 2 PC 12 Plus for about the same price (one in Kirkland for $700 and one in Vancouver for $600).  Those would fit my need a lot better even if they sent the PB2 Plus to the Garage sale or behind the couch. But this whole exercise has been rally valuable because it has given me some perspective that otherwise would have take a year and multiple purchases.

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Multiple subs are almost required imo.  One great sub will almost never br as good as 2 3 or 4 lesser subs.  I would take 4 pb1000s or 2 pb2000s over a pb16 for example.  I have 2 monster subs w 18in drivers and 2 large 15s in one theater....easily plays down to 10hz flat in room well past reference ...build your subs its much easier than mains.  Look at diysoundgroup for awesome speaker kits at cost.  Amazing quality worth 4x their cost imo.   Crossovers are difficult to design.  

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Re crossovers i was referring to 2 or 3 way speakers....its a art to do them right.  How you use your subs is a choice of course and whatever you like is what u should do.  You like midbass if that is thr case and if so you should consider building dayton pa460 subs known for massive midbass ☺

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Above 500hz most speakers are directional.  Really above 200 or 300 in most cases.  

 

Google avsforum and vbbs build for amazingly cheap power subs known for midbass....also note any pa460 build threads in the diy forum.

 

When a speaker plays down to 20 or 30 its not optimal to have it play above 150ish....it takes away some of the ability to crank out the low end but does work.  

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