Does material of speaker case/housing matter?

[vasubandu]

Exactly what purpose does a speaker housing perform.  I read about deadening sound, and I get how MDF would do that, but is that all there is to it, or do speakers need space behind them inside the housing.  The reason I ask is that I have a sudden interest in speaker design, and I am wondering what the idea form would be.  One of my hobbies is live edge wood slabs, and I could get a solid piece of very dense and heavy wood that was a foot and a half wide, two and a half feet deep and six feet tall. The driver cavities could be carve out of it or a six inch end could be cut off the top and bottom and then the middle part hollowed out leaving any amount of wood around the edges that was desired.  If this all a waste of time and the housing does not matter, or does it merit further thinking?

[Schu]

Everything matters.. including keeping your speaker wires elevated 

[vasubandu]

@Schu that's so the power won't all run out, right?

[wuzzzer]

You need space inside an enclosure for anything involving a cone type driver like a woofer.  A horn loaded setup doesn't need cabinet volume, per se.

 

The space needed depends on the driver used.  Several parameters are in play to determine that.

[vasubandu]

Would there be a benefit to having thick solid walls or do thinner walls do the job and more would just weigh more? I am sort of driving at why does the RF-7 weigh 94 pounds and the PB2 Plus weight 175.

[dtr20]

Thicker walls makes less resonance

[CECAA850]

12 hours ago, wuzzzer said:

The space needed depends on the driver used.  Several parameters are in play to determine that.

OP, download winisd.  Cabinet volume will determine how a driver acts/reacts.

[babadono]

yes

[vasubandu]

Thanks guys. If I build a speaker it may look like a huge vertical tree trunk.

[Dave A]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:18 PM, Schu said:

Everything matters.. including keeping your speaker wires elevated 

 Well they have proven that even electrons have weight and if you allow your wire to sag in between supports they will puddle in the low areas. This is why you get that pop when you turn your amps on. Both the transient new electrons and the puddled stagnant electrons create an inrush to the speakers and thus the pop. This is why you should use pure Platinum wires as the specific gravity means the interstices of the atoms is more compacted and will allow for less puddling of electrons. I prefer pure Gold and Silver and best yet Platinum foil capacitors for this reason also.

[jimjimbo]

I use Bitcoin to elevate my wires

 

[wvu80]

57 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I prefer pure Gold and Silver and best yet Platinum foil capacitors for this reason also.

As long as it produces an airy iridescent sound that produces a smooth yet flowing ambiance that leaves one with a feeling of je ne sais quoi , I'm with you.     

+++

 

@vasubandu there is a lot that goes into a speaker design.  You are over your head to try to design a speaker from scratch, having no experience whatsoever.  You need to understand a lot of things before you start ordering parts. 

 

Do you know the difference between a sealed and ported enclosure?  Do you know what Thiele-Small Parameters are, and how to choose drivers and crossover that fits those values?  Fs, Re, Le, Qms, Qes, Qts, Vas?  How about Cms, Bl, Mns and Xmax?  Do you know how to use those values to design a crossover with a steep slope?  Shallow slope?  Do you know how to figure baffle step compensation?

 

For the record, I don't know the answer to ANY of the questions I posed directly above.  ^^^  Not a clue. 

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but it will take a LOT of studying before you can begin to start talking speaker design.

 

I suggest a couple things if you're still reading.  Sign up over at avsforum.com and head to the DIY speakers and subs sub-forum.  Do a lot of reading over there, ask all the questions you want.  That's what those people do, and btw a lot of members there are members here.

 

Parts-express also has a lot of resources you can read: 

https://www.parts-express.com/resources

 

I highly suggest you start by building a kit and soldering your own crossovers.  PE has DIY kits, and my favorite place to go is DIYsoundgroup.com.  They have fantastic kits, a supportive DIY community and you can learn by doing.  Check out the Fusion kits, they utilize SEOS waveguides and pro audio components and compete with Klipsch sound-wise in terms of efficient speakers.  Check out the reviews on those speakers.  People like them.

 

And BTW, when you get done you will have a speaker that sounds fantastic and you will learn a ton along the way.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/

 

I have built two pairs of Overnight Sensations, Cheap Thrills, Fusion 10 Pure and a Reference 15 sealed sub.  DIY is fun. 

[richieb]

2 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

I use Bitcoin to elevate my wires

 

Like I said in our PM's we appreciate your technical input --!

[jimjimbo]

That’s good

[vasubandu]

@Dave A OK I see the smiley face, but I assume there is some level of seriousness to what you said.  If not, you totally got me.  

 

As I recall, platinum is not much of a conductor - something like 4 or 5 times the resistance of gold, and gold has I think something less that twice the resistance of copper and silver.  Silver has the least resistance of any metal, but it is so close who cares except yuppies buying speaker wire.  All in all, this would seem to make platinum a poor choice, especially over a distance.  And temperature is important here, I just don't remember why.

 

Now your comment about puddled electrons made me laugh.  Yes, electrons have mass, about 1/2000 of a proton, but that does not mean that they puddle.  Electrons are both particle and wave, and making one stop in a puddle would have drastic consequences for the universe.  Now that one did send me to the internet,  specifically to ResearchGate, where I found this, which seemed fairly illuminating. https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_we_stop_electrons_from_moving  Bottom line, I do not think that electrons pool, but I may be wrong.

 

Copper wire, nice thick copper wire.  

 

 

 

 

 

[wvu80]

30 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

OK I see the smiley face, but I assume there is some level of seriousness to what you said.  If not, you totally got me.  

 

As I recall, platinum is not much of a conductor - something like 4 o...(snip!)

I was being pretentious.  I used all the big words I could find and threw in all the French I could remember from 8th grade.  Not serious at all. 

+++

 

And yes, @Dave A was being funny about electron puddling. 

+++

 

I was trying to be helpful to you on speaker design by giving you a very blunt, honest opinion.  I've been doing DIY speakers since 2014 and I love to learn and study how they work.  I wouldn't even think about trying to design my own speakers.  I feel like I would spend a lot of time and money to produce some speakers that sound like crap.  I don't mind admitting, it's waaay over my head.

 

If speaker design is your passion, go for it.  But start by putting together a pre-designed DIY kit so you'll have some practical idea of how those things work.

[vasubandu]

@wvu80 I understand you and am in complete agreement. If I tried to make a speaker now, the only sound it would make is when it hit the wall after I kicked it.  My problem is not really so much that I lack information as that I am stuffed full of wrong information. And I really am just trying to get my bearings.

 

I have noticed a huge range in weight for speakers of similar size.  That has me wondering.  Businesses have to ship the things they make and sell, and heavier objects cost more to ship than light ones.  That would tend to suggest that speaker makers would make them as light as possible to achieve their goal.  If they are designed to blend with fine furniture, that will add to the weight.  But black monolithic speakers can be heavy.  If they have a lot of heavy parts, that will raise the weight.  From what I have found, that does not seem to be the explanation.

 

I tend like the sound of the heavier speakers more than the light ones, and that suggests that more mass can contribute to quality.  But if it does, how does that work. Is more mass always better so that I should be looking for 500 pound speakers or putting big rocks in my speakers?  And why are we still using wood?  DO we really have thing better? And MDF?  What the hell?  Are these IKEA speakers or something. Can't they use real wood?  But almost no one does, so there must be some magic to MDF.

 

This is just the way my mind works.  So I throw out a question that may be a bit odd, but is broad enough to capture some information.  And now I think I know that I want to minimize resonance - makes sense,  I want the woofer to make the noise.  Heavier usually should mean less resonance, but maybe there are techniques for lighter speakers.  And each component has its own specific space requirements to sound right.  That must mean not just the space but also how the spaces lay out. And it looks like there is some software that can help with this.

 

I don't have all my answers, but my background understanding is improving. I usually am a pretty quick learner, and I tend to become a book expert long before I actually try to do anything, and then I find out that the books are helpful, but they are just books, and you have to put in your time with your hands.

[vasubandu]

9 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I was trying to be helpful to you on speaker design by giving you a very blunt, honest opinion.  I've been doing DIY speakers since 2014 and I love to learn and study how they work.  I wouldn't even think about trying to design my own speakers.  I feel like I would spend a lot of time and money to produce some speakers that sound like crap.  I don't mind admitting, it's waaay over my head.

 

 

And that is exactly how I took what you said.  I always welcome blunt, honest opinions, especially when I am wrong or about to do something stupid. So with me, you absolutely never need to hold back.

 

I am still waiting for someone to beat me over the head about my CF-4 lust.  But I wish they would beat me over the head with one for sale first.

[wvu80]

51 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

And MDF?  What the hell?  Are these IKEA speakers or something. Can't they use real wood? 

Real wood is not desirable in speaker enclosures.  They expand and contract with humidity.  They vibrate like a bell producing distortion, and over time hard wood will crack.

 

MDF is THE building material of choice, no kidding.  They have a desirable sound deadening characteristic in that they don't have their own resonant frequency like a hard wood has.  Be aware there is a cheap MDF and a good one.  The better speakers all use MDF, heavily braced and then veneered.

 

FYI:

Khorn: 175 pounds

La Scala: 125 pounds

CF-4: 108 pounds

RF-7:  94 pounds

RF-83:  100 pounds

[dtel]

55 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

And yes, @Dave A was being funny about electron puddling. 

Oh, and was back there with a level trying to fix the low spots.

 

3 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Real wood is not desirable in speaker enclosures.  The expand and contract with humidity.  They vibrate like a bell producing distortion, and over time hard wood will crack.

I was depressed when I found that out years ago, I had plans to replace some older cabinets with a better looking solid wood cabinets. Everyone said it was a bad idea, oh well, just left them alone.