willland Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, Emile said: OK; now I am REALLY CONFUSED Was looking to upgrade my Onkyo TX-NR646 since it has no pre-outs (except sub and zone2). So; started looking at the Marantz SR5011 and Integra 50.4 so I would have something else to play with while the wife is gone on a trip. Both these models have "full" pre-outs and zones. So, ??? if I hookup my vintage amp to the "full" pre-outs of the AVR (FL/FR, center, rears, etc ...) ... hooking it up to FL/FR of this set of pre-outs, do I get all the sound for a 2.0 channel or only the FR/FL as massaged by the AVR (i.e. missing the rest of the signal)???? Many thanks, Emile If you will use your 2252B as an outboard amp only for your FL and FR, you will bypass the amp section in the AVR's FL and FR. The AVR will still utilize the center and surrounds amp channels. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, willland said: If you will use your 2252B as an outboard amp only for your FL and FR, you will bypass the amp section in the AVR's FL and FR. The AVR will still utilize the center and surrounds amp channels. Bill, thanks! Just to make sure I fully understand ... If I use my outboard amp on the FR/FL outputs of the "full" pre-out section of my AVR (FR/FL, center, surrounds, rears) it will "stop" the FR/FL speakers hooked up to the AVR? And ... it will "only" give me the "AVR FR/FL" sound (i.e. not a full 2.0 sound?) Thanks a million, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 @Emile I am sure you have done this, but just in case, when I was looking for a receiver, I went to the A4Less and simply selected and deselected the features to see what each one did to selection and price. For example, it has a phono input option, leaving 73. Each selection adjusts the remaining numbers, So phono out and multi-channel preout leaves 47, 4 with 11 channels, 23 with 9 channels and 20 with 7. The Marantz 5011 is 7.2, so I assume that is all you need. The Yamaha RX-A850 is 2 years old and they have it for $500. It is 15" deep according to Yamaha. The 860 is 16. And hey another option is the new Integra DRX-4. They have it for $650., and even the DRX-3 and 3.1 seem to have these specs for $450 and $600. Both are under 15 inches deep. Hard to see how those could be beat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, willland said: If you will use your 2252B as an outboard amp only for your FL and FR, you will bypass the amp section in the AVR's FL and FR. The AVR will still utilize the center and surrounds amp channels. Add-on ... so, if I want "full" 2.0 sound from my outboard amp I should use zone2? Remember screwing with this before and quit playing with it because zone2 only transferred the RCA inputs and NOT HDMI inputs Thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Emile said: Add-on ... so, if I want "full" 2.0 sound from my outboard amp I should use zone2? Remember screwing with this before and quit playing with it because zone2 only transferred the RCA inputs and NOT HDMI inputs Thanks, Emile It would, if you only have to FL/FR speakers, but it won't stop the AVR from putting sound out through the FL/FR terminals on the unit. If you use pre-outs, it treats it as channel expansion. 6 minutes ago, vasubandu said: And hey another option is the new Integra DRX-4. They have it for $650., and even the DRX-3 and 3.1 seem to have these specs for $450 and $600. Both are under 15 inches deep. Hard to see how those could be beat. His outboard amp is far superior in SQ to anything under $1000 that A4L has to offer with a phono stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, The History Kid said: It would, if you only have to FL/FR speakers, but it won't stop the AVR from putting sound out through the FL/FR terminals on the unit. If you use pre-outs, it treats it as channel expansion. Thanks a lot! Finally starting to understand this (and I have played with it for a loong time ) Basically just want to run CD's through my better (thanks ) Marantz outboard in a 2.0 setup. But "also" would like to sometimes use my Marantz and KPT-904's to "grab" the inputs to my AVR (bluray, tv, etc.) and don't mind that my AVR's FR/FL stay "on" as they are overpowered by the 904's anyhow. Hope this makes sense. Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Thanks @The History Kid I did not realize that the Marantz 2252B would do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, Emile said: Thanks a lot! Finally starting to understand this (and I have played with it for a loong time ) Basically just want to run CD's through my better (thanks ) Marantz outboard in a 2.0 setup. But "also" would like to sometimes use my Marantz and KPT-904's to "grab" the inputs to my AVR (bluray, tv, etc.) and don't mind that my AVR's FR/FL stay "on" as they are overpowered by the 904's anyhow. Hope this makes sense. Cheers, Emile Yeah, there shouldn't be an issue. There are multiple AVR's out there that have 2-channel pre-outs too for just such an occasion, or more forceful driving of FL/FR speakers. You should be able to find these in slimline, small-form, or in a dimension that will fit into your space. If you're just looking for 5.1 with HDMI, the options are plentiful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, The History Kid said: multiple AVR's out there that have 2-channel pre-outs Thanks again .. but just to make sure these 2-channel pre-outs are usually designated as zone2/3/etc? Played with my cheap Onkyo 646 before and zone2 ONLY transferred RCA inputs and NOT HDMI inputs So (for example) running my CD/DVD player via HDMI to the AVR AND via RCA to my outboard Marantz ... seems stupid but ... Many thanks, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Emile said: Thanks again .. but just to make sure these 2-channel pre-outs are usually designated as zone2/3/etc? Played with my cheap Onkyo 646 before and zone2 ONLY transferred RCA inputs and NOT HDMI inputs So (for example) running my CD/DVD player via HDMI to the AVR AND via RCA to my outboard Marantz ... seems stupid but ... Many thanks, Emile No, there actually are a few that are non-Zone-assigned Line outs for just the FL/FR. They are for people who have power hungry mains that they know the AVR can't supply adequate power for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 @willland , @vasubandu , @The History Kid ... many thanks for all your help! Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 On 1/31/2018 at 3:28 PM, vasubandu said: Wait a second, get a bigger cabinet. Problem solved. you had to make me do this No AVR I wanted would fit TV/fireplace is surrounded by cedar 2x12 book cases ...made my "cabinet" by extending a portion with 2x8 cedar and glass doors. Guess I can extend it with 2x4's and fit in a "bigger" AVR Wife is visiting her mother for a week ... she'll never even notice it So; got an Onkyo TZ-RZ810 ... yes, know there are better AVR's out there, but do not use it that much Plus it was one of the few models which had phono input, 2nd/3rd zone output, full pre-outs, AND (most important to me) digital output to zones from HDMI. Almost bought a refurb unit from A4less ($550 + $40 tax +$10 shipping = $600; 1 year warranty), but found Crutchfield has these on sale for $600 (no tax - for me in FL -, $0 shipping, and NEW with 3 year warranty). OK; a "no-brainer." Ordered and will be here Monday ... gives me time to rip out all my old stuff, redo the cabinet ... and drink lot of wine Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Good catch @Emile I looked at that one too. Huge price jump to the 820 and I never saw why. Given your use, I would say it is about perfect. If I might make a suggestion, finish the project and put the power tools away before hitting the wine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 7:25 PM, vasubandu said: Good catch @Emile I looked at that one too. Almost Yeah, bought the Onkyo TX-RZ810 as EVERYONE told me it would "transfer" HDMI inputs to zone2 (my outboard Marantz 2252B with 904 speakers). Just finished reading the small print in the manual ... ONLY HDMI inputs 1-3 are transferred to zone2 . Disappointed Oh well; 5pm here, will open a bottle of wine Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Do you need more than 3? Can't you plan around that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, vasubandu said: Do you need more than 3? Can't you plan around that ? HDMI's in for BluRay, 6 cd/dvd changer, Oppo CD, Chromecast, Roku, PC, etc. Yeah; will "play" with it to see what I can transfer to zone2. just disappointed by the internet advice from :experts" - especially since I ripped out my old cabinet to extend it to make room for this "deeper" AVR. Cheers, Emile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'm disappointed that you are still disappointed when people lie to sell you things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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