Jump to content

What is the Least Expensive Amplifier?


nicesound

Recommended Posts

What would be the least expensive high quality amplifier for Klipsch Premier bookshelf speakers as part of a 2.1 setup?

 

I know Klipsch speakers are very high sensitivity, so that means one should not have to spend as much to buy a more powerful amplifier. My calculations actually show that to listen at 80db, which is the recommended listening level, one would only need a 5 watt RMS amplifier with Klipsch speakers. Those same formulas show that a common medium-low sensitivity speaker would require about ten times the wattage (50 watts) such as the JBL Studio 530, which I own and have 5 stars on What hi-fi  I wonder why they don't review the Klipsch reference priemere bookshelf speakers. I also saw the new CES 2018 version coming out in august and would get those if I switch to Klipsch.

 

The  The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel has a video called "How many watts do I need?" which has a link to a spreadsheet in the comments to calculate. The video also mentions that wattage is not enough to go on and the "torque" so to speak has no measurable rating in audio electronics. This is why two amplifiers with the same wattage could have very different results.

 

I saw the Yamaha s-301 which would be more than adequate at $350 and 60 watts RMS per channel. However this seems overkill. I know cambridge audio makes amplifiers which are as low as 20 watts RMS, however I'm not impressed with their website and lack of specs. I know not all amplifiers are the same and found a review of the 20 watt Audioengine amplifier that said it left the music sounding flat and empty compared to a 30+ year old NAD amplifier that was also only 20 watts and is also a class A/B amplifier.

 

I'm very interested in these new slim and low heat class D amplifiers and have searched all brands that make them, however the good Japanese or Canadian/USA brands are quite expensive compared to the $100 class D amps being shipped out of China by unusual brands which have many reviews of defects and no customer support.

 

I found the nice NAD C 328 class D amplifier for $550 which is 50 watts RMS per channel and that would drive any bookshelf speakers, though it seems overkill and it is their entry level. It does have sub-woofer out though, which is important. I like the simplicity of the design and lack of knobs.

 

It does bother me a bit they included blu-tooth, which I don't really need, but they also didn't make it the aptX version, which is the CD quality standard used which their next model up has. I wish they just left it out or labeled an RCA input for that if you wanted to buy something separate to plug in. Also, a lower end model might have been nice for high sensitivity speakers like Klipsch to bring it to a wider audience. But, anyway, that is sort of pointless to complain about I guess.

 

Any recommendations for amplifiers? I would most likely want optical in and subwoofer out / pre-out.

 

Thank You.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, they are very efficient.
As an amplifier manufacturer states "if the first watt sucks, why continue"
Quality not quantity.

9 minutes ago, nicesound said:

Any recommendations for amplifiers? I would most likely want optical in and subwoofer out / pre-out.

Based on the above, you want an integrated amp or receiver..not an amplifier.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two things to watch here: 

 

Low power: Yes, Klipsch speakers are very efficient. So, 10W are more than enough to make some noise at your room. 

 

Cheap amplifier: Usually it mean low quality. You can get a class A amp from china websites (TPA3116 based amps) and get what you want: Least expensive amp. 

 

But, why spend a lot of money on great speakers like a Premier and buy a cheap amp? 

 

I mean, it's not all about power. Usually the amps have like 40 - 60W because doesnt worth making less than that. The cost would be about the same.

 

Yamaha 301 is a great amp for a 2.1 setup. I have it's big brother (501) and I can tell you its worth the price. I don't use its 85W though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a little more: 

 

Class A or Tube amps usually have low power, because costs a lot to make those things get hundreds of watts. But, they're not cheap either, they're a very nice quality pieces. 

 

Entry level integrated amps usually has 30 - 60W and they're cheap. I mean, making a version with less power like, 20W would save you just a few bucks and probably you'd paying a little more for the more powered version anyway. The price tag is not all about output power. 

 

I was looking for a integrated amp for me.

Just to save you some time: NAD, Cambridge (Topaz line is very cheap) and Marantz doesn't have sub output or Optical in. 

 

The options for you are Yamaha A-S301 which has all you want or NAD-3020D which is a little limited about inputs and its a little hard to fix because all that proprietary processors and components to make that thing work. 

 

 

I got the Yamaha and I'm happy with it. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nicesound said:

Any recommendations for amplifiers? I would most likely want optical in and subwoofer out / pre-out.

May I ask what sub you have?

 

The reason is some subs have two ways of getting a signal, high level and low level inputs.  The low level is an RCA cable, but the high level uses your regular +/- speaker wire. 

 

If your receiver or 2-channel integrated amp does not have a sub-out (most don't) that will give you an option.  FYI I run a older 60 watt JVC receiver with my Mancave TV into a 2.1 setup using a 10" Paradigm sub.

+++

 

Option:  You might consider getting a pre-used AVR from a few years ago.  You can get some fantastic sounding AVR's for pennies on the dollar (like a hundred bucks) as people let them go cheap as they upgrade to AVR's with HDMI.  They almost always support optical in and it will have the sub pre-out as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, USNRET said:

Yes, they are very efficient.
As an amplifier manufacturer states "if the first watt sucks, why continue"
Quality not quantity.

Based on the above, you want an integrated amp or receiver..not an amplifier.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

Mike, Thanks for the welcome and yes, I almost said "integrated-amplifier" as that is what I want, not a power-amplifier. I also want it with a DAC as well, though I considered getting a $30 fiio toslink DAC and plugging it into some integrated amplifiers that don't have a DAC and I'm sure it would sound perfect, though may be more likely to fail, but could be cheaply replaced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

May I ask what sub you have?

 

The reason is some subs have two ways of getting a signal, high level and low level inputs.  The low level is an RCA cable, but the high level uses your regular +/- speaker wire. 

 

If your receiver or 2-channel integrated amp does not have a sub-out (most don't) that will give you an option.  FYI I run a older 60 watt JVC receiver with my Mancave TV into a 2.1 setup using a 10" Paradigm sub.

+++

 

Option:  You might consider getting a pre-used AVR from a few years ago.  You can get some fantastic sounding AVR's for pennies on the dollar (like a hundred bucks) as people let them go cheap as they upgrade to AVR's with HDMI.  They almost always support optical in and it will have the sub pre-out as well.

Wvu80, I have the Emotiva Ultra Sub 10. It does not have high level inputs. I don't really want the subwoofer, but I'll try it with my new amplifier. I haven't used a subwoofer in years. It is the only Emotiva product I've bought. I think I'd be more likely to buy a Klipsch subwoofer or maybe a BIC. I know BIC has high level inputs. They could come in handy when some integarted amplifiers don't have pre-outs or subwoofer out, but I think I expect pre-outs or subwoofer out more than high level inputs on a subwoofer. I'm also not sure if that drains the power of the amplifier or not.

 

My thought is to get main speakers with drivers no larger than 5.25 inches and use a sub-woofer if I really need more low frequency.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NiceSound, maybe I missed it but are you driving the JBL or looking at a specific Klipsch speaker to power? Just because you can use a low power amp doesn't mean you have to. There is no such thing as overkill. A more powerful amp will better control your speakers. If you have larger drivers you still need the power to push the driver. Emotiva makes very good quality amps, if you already have an Emotiva sub I would stick with it, most likely better quality than the majority of Klipsch built subs.

 

From your last post it looks like you are thinking about a small bookshelf type speaker with a small driver to use in conjunction with a subwoofer. is this correct?

 

Also, where are you located and what is your budget for each the amp and the speakers. Each or both

 

 

Tim

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, teaman said:

NiceSound, maybe I missed it but are you driving the JBL or looking at a specific Klipsch speaker to power? Just because you can use a low power amp doesn't mean you have to. There is no such thing as overkill. A more powerful amp will better control your speakers. If you have larger drivers you still need the power to push the driver.

 

From your last post it looks like you are thinking about a small bookshelf type speaker with a small driver to use in conjunction with a subwoofer. is this correct?

 

Also, where are you located and what is your budget for each the amp and the speakers. Each or both

 

 

Tim

Teaman, I'm going to start just by powering the JBL Studio 530's. I used to think I needed closer to 100 - 125 watts for those because I was told so in reviews and that is also the power handling. What do you think? More recently I decided that isn't true. The website says they can take 30 to 125 or something like that, but the customer service seems to suggest people go to the highest.

 

I'd like to try klipsch in the future perhaps and that is why I'm asking here. What people said about not saving much in cost to manufacture watts below 50 makes sense to me and I was wondering perhaps that was the case. 50/60 watts RMS per channel is basically standard entry level now.

 

I mostly listen to bookshelf speakers at the computer desk to listen to music, play games or use them next to the TV for movies and pull a recliner up really close to the TV.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you dead set on buying new? You could buy nice quality gear used with much higher original MSRP in used than what you can get new. 

 

Are you looking at a budget you want to stay under for the amp? Strictly two channel or the possibility of adding channels and going surround in the future?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, teaman said:

Are you dead set on buying new? You could buy nice quality gear used with much higher original MSRP in used than what you can get new. 

 

Are you looking at a budget you want to stay under for the amp? Strictly two channel or the possibility of adding channels and going surround in the future?

teaman, I have considered buying used. I checked on ebay and craigslist. One thing though is that these big items cost a lot to ship used for what they cost. I didn't see anything on ebay. Also, if I buy something pre-owned even if it has not been used I expect to not pay more than half the price of buying it from a registered retailer with a warranty due to the increased risk. If I could pick up a Yamaha s-301 for $150 I might do that. I also kind of like the idea of slim receivers or more specifically class D amplifiers like the NAD because they do give me a lot more space on my rack and may be more future proof.

 

I'm on my third integrated amplifier / receiver as the last two died on me. The Onkyo AV receiver onscreen meny failed so I couldn't change the setting anymore and the Marantz the same thing happend, though it is being repaired under warranty right now. However, I decided to stop using AV receivers because they are too complicated and fail and also because I don't want to do surround sound anymore. So, I plan to try to sell the Marantz used and buy a simple integrated stereo amplifier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just so you know, the quality of separates is in the build. Instead of packing a bunch of technology into a single chassis you get one small chassis for each specialized function. I would almost always suggest going with separates. 

 

I would also tell you to avoid buying the bottom of the line anything. That Yamaha is so basic and weak that you will probably fry your speakers. It has high distortion and low power which is a deadly combination for any speaker. I fried tweeters in 200 watt RMS speakers with a 35 WPC receiver. The receiver's amp section overdrives it's own capabilities and "clips". Usually the result is a spike of power that fries the tweeters because they are the weakest link. For $200 that you would be in the ballpark of paying for that Yamaha I would suggest looking used for sure, or at least look at other options in that range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

teaman, Well the Yamaha can do 70W per channel at 6 ohms, which is what my current speakers are. The Marantz I was using was only rated 50W (at 8 ohms I believe and I don't know for 6 ohms). The Yamaha is even more watts than the more expensive NAD amplifier. I think either will work. I don't think I'm going to blow them by cranking up the volume too high for the wattage to try to hear them. I also use them in a small room.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not trying to sell you one but for instance I have two Emotiva Mini -X A-100 products. They can be used as integrated amps with 50 WPC. I used these to power my outdoor patio Klipsch and my Klipsch KG-1.5 PC speakers. I have since taken them out of service as I have a couple of extra channels on my McIntosh amp to do outdoors and use headphones on the computer.

 

Take a look at those. You would still need a DAC but that Emo amp has worked well for smaller, efficient speakers.

MiniX_FRONTsmall.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This might even be a good place to start.

ta100_front_phono-1-1.png

https://emotiva.com/product/ta-100/

 

This is basically a low powered (50 WPC) two channel integrated amp with pre-outs so you can add an external amp as your system grows. You may think 50 WPC is pretty low but Emotiva specializes in amps and their power is actual power. That Yamaha rated at 100 WPC would be lucky to push 50.

 

This one linked above has a built in DAC, of very good quality for the price. It gives you three analog inputs, including phono capability. It offers two digital inputs and the Bluetooth option to stream. There is also a tuner if radio is your thing. Plus it has a capable headphone amp built in.

 

It also comes with a three year warranty and excellent customer service from a company that really does stand behind their products. If you call them directly they more than likely have Factory Refreshed or B-Stock for less than that price tag of $399. I know of several people that own, or have owned this own and everyone seems to think it is a bargain.

 

Edit: After seeing USNRET's post this TA-100 is basically the A-100 with a preamp and DAC built in.

 

Tim

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Onkyo A-9010 gets my vote on a dirt cheap amp with a good DAC and stereo preamp outputs for the sub.

 

These amps sound better with klipsch than the Yamaha amps in my opinion.  I like the Yamaha looks better though.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi nicesound

I don't agree you I'll fry your speakers with a Yamaha or it doesn't deliver the rated lower. 

If you look around the Internet you'll see some power output measurements that shows more power than rated. 

These quality integrated amps deliver the output power with a very low distortion, so no way it will blow up you speakers. 

When I was looking for my amp I saw:

Yamaha 

Marantz 

Onkyo 

Pionneer 

Rotel

NAD 

Cambridge 

Emotiva

 

There are a lot of options out there. The cheaper ones usually have cheaper components and higher distortion at full power. 

When you look for a sub out and a digital in, you'll narrow your options. NAD and Marantz has sub outs at more expensive models only. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, teaman said:

This might even be a good place to start.

ta100_front_phono-1-1.png

https://emotiva.com/product/ta-100/

 

This is basically a low powered (50 WPC) two channel integrated amp with pre-outs so you can add an external amp as your system grows. You may think 50 WPC is pretty low but Emotiva specializes in amps and their power is actual power. That Yamaha rated at 100 WPC would be lucky to push 50.

 

This one linked above has a built in DAC, of very good quality for the price. It gives you three analog inputs, including phono capability. It offers two digital inputs and the Bluetooth option to stream. There is also a tuner if radio is your thing. Plus it has a capable headphone amp built in.

 

It also comes with a three year warranty and excellent customer service from a company that really does stand behind their products. If you call them directly they more than likely have Factory Refreshed or B-Stock for less than that price tag of $399. I know of several people that own, or have owned this own and everyone seems to think it is a bargain.

 

Edit: After seeing USNRET's post this TA-100 is basically the A-100 with a preamp and DAC built in.

 

Tim

Teaman,

 

I was actually ready to press "buy" on the payment page of the Emotiva T-100 about a week ago. Before that I was considering getting their pre-amp(pt-100) and the power amp  A-150. JBL also said that to use the speakers to their full potential you should use an amp that can match the power handling of the speakers. That is kind of what I thought early on as well, though I'm not so sure if that is only if you want to drive them for a very large room, rather than simply wanting to have the full fidelity. I do not intend to use them in a very large room. My JBL's are 125 W RMS per channel.

 

Also, do you think the NAD C 328 Hybrid Digital DAC Amplifier ($550) would be "real" power just like the Emotiva TA-100 ($400). They are both rated at 50 watts RMS and both amplifier companies. I'm a little more skeptical of Emotiva though compared to other brands as they just seem a little more audiphile rather than hi-fi. I also like the idea of the Class D amplifier that NAD uses. Emotiva will not switch to class D I'm pretty sure because that goes against audiophile thinking probably. Emotiva has also released multiple products with weird bugs I believe. I'm quite a bit more skeptical of Emotiva now. I'm also skeptical of JBl since they discontinued their nice bookshelf speakers 5 series and the new ones look really cheap and ugly and half the price. Klipsch on the other hand keeps releasing consistent series year after year and doesn't abandon a line or release tacky looking speakers with bad profile and I like that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...