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DSP options for your Pro Klipsch Audio


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@Gnote Finally got around to putting the Xilica back on the bench. With -10dBV (consumer gear) ref level unbalanced input I was able to get the input meters(in XConsole app) up to +5 dB out of a possible +21. This was with the gain of the input channels all the way up to +15. There is still another 15 db of gain in the outputs available. Curiously it looks like the front panel input meters show the input level WITHOUT the gain you add with the input gain control. But the meters in the XConsole app shows input level with gain added.

Well I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the front panel meters are showing because now I have a balanced signal at +4dBu going in and the meters show "signal" but the -12 led is not even lit.

But anyway it looks like you can drive this thing with unbalanced consumer gear.

 

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I use a NOSValves NBS tube preamp into my Xilica.  I am using RCA/XLR adaptors and they work fine.  Have used those for years on other systems.  I can't find any documentation as to any minimum required input signal level into the Xilica.  For instance, my Ashly processors state the minimum input signal level required to achieve full signal to noise ratio on the input before the A/D.  Still, the Xilica is clean and produces plenty of output LEDs and I do not have the input nor output gains up at all.  I haven't connected the Xconsole in a while and so I don't know the exact levels I'm getting at the moment.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 7:19 AM, Chris A said:

One of the issues that I've experienced with DSP amplifiers (i.e., the Crown XTi series) is that the amplifiers don't sound very good above subwoofer frequencies. 

 

The frequencies, per se, don't have anything to do with it. DSP amplifiers are pro sound devices designed to be run hard. Whenever one drives a loudspeaker of high sensitivity with one of these, the internal DSP isn't using very many bits and, in the case of the Crown XTi there is no way I can find to alter the gain structure of that amplifier to correct this issue. 8 bit audio doesn't sound very pleasing to me.

 

I have recently been experimenting with a pair of old Boston Acoustics A150 floorstanders (90 dB sensitivity) I bought about 30 years ago when I moved to a house that had no corners for the Khorns. I was never impressed with them because they had a rather boxy, boomy, one note bass but I wanted to play around with them a bit before I got rid of them. I hooked them up to one of the XTi 1000s I had. I played around with loudspeaker placement for about a week and ended up with a nearfield system in the middle of a large room, with the speakers on the floor, no toe in, with the listening position about 6 feet back. Wow! This setup will throw a 3D soundfield that sounds absolutely stunning. These speakers, 33 inches high and sitting flat on the floor, create an image taller than the speakers and outside the spacing of the boxes. I can hear the separation of the instruments and vocals in 3D space and it sounds so real that it seems I can get up and walk between the performers. My speaker wire is some old stuff I bought around the same time as the speakers, clear PVC with one wire bare copper, the other tinned. My dog chewed on one of the wires so there is some exposed copper for an inch or so, hooked to a $500 prosound amplifier, and an OPPO player. This setup will play much louder than I want to listen, clean and with no audible distortion. The bass from the 10 inch woofers is fast and articulate, similar to Lascalas except the A150 go a little deeper.

 

At a 90 dB sensitivity they require ~20X the power a Khorn uses, but there's plenty enough available power to hit over 100 dB SPL, C weighting slow at the listening position, 110 dB peaks.:D Using more DSP bits is the big bonus, I think, as these speakers have never sounded so clean and precise as they do now, nor did this amplifier sound this good when it was  driving high sensitivity compression drivers.

 

BTW, I did this late last year and haven't been in a big hurry to hook the Khorns back up. Still listening through the music collection.:emotion-21:

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Using high power dissipation resistors in series will drop the effective sensitivity...but will also decrease the effective damping factor at the loudspeaker's low input impedance frequencies--so there's no free lunch. 

 

Chris

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On 2/12/2018 at 7:16 PM, Schu said:

I'm not looking forward to going active one bit... but it's a necessary evil for some configurations.

I much prefer passive crossovers.  I've never had an active crossover setup so I was interested in acquiring one. However, I've been unable to get any help on active crossover settings using a Xilica dsp unit for a three-way Jubilee. So it appears that dream is over.

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If you cross at 6K or above you shouldn't need any specific CD horn related EQ.  I assume you have a 510 tweeter?  It would just be EQ to taste or to flatten.  That just leaves delay.  You can figure that out pretty easily.

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3 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

I much prefer passive crossovers.  I've never had an active crossover setup so I was interested in acquiring one. However, I've been unable to get any help on active crossover settings using a Xilica dsp unit for a three-way Jubilee. So it appears that dream is over.

Whatca u talkin' 'bout Willis?

http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Klipsch_Cinema_Active_Settings_March_2014.pdf

These are the Klipsch recommended settings to get as far as biamping the threeways, then you will have to divide up the mid and tweeter.

You are going to have to get a measurement microphone and software(free) and a platform to run it on(laptop) to fine tune to your room. There are tons of help available here especially @Chris A I believe @Turbox will be going down this path soon as well.

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Here's a plot showing the average attenuation of commercial cinema screens vs. frequency so that some sort of correction vs. frequency might be tried using the "through the screen" settings supplied by Klipsch Professional...for those folks who--for whatever reason--are resistant to the idea of measuring their cinema loudspeakers in their own listening rooms:

 

5a99a45626ac0_CinemaScreenAttentuation.PNG.58dff622aec6adde0828d49592c788d9.PNG

 

*   MPS = Matt Plus MiniPerforated Super

    SP = Matt Plus Standard

    MP = Matt Plus MiniPerforated

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On 2/26/2018 at 6:52 PM, babadono said:

@Gnote Finally got around to putting the Xilica back on the bench. With -10dBV (consumer gear) ref level unbalanced input I was able to get the input meters(in XConsole app) up to +5 dB out of a possible +21. This was with the gain of the input channels all the way up to +15. There is still another 15 db of gain in the outputs available. Curiously it looks like the front panel input meters show the input level WITHOUT the gain you add with the input gain control. But the meters in the XConsole app shows input level with gain added.

Well I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the front panel meters are showing because now I have a balanced signal at +4dBu going in and the meters show "signal" but the -12 led is not even lit.

But anyway it looks like you can drive this thing with unbalanced consumer gear.

 

I tried one of these and it works great, NO noise at all and adjustable.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CleanBoxPro?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=2976601211&rkg_id=h-9da52a51d6bca0bc084d318749c1fec9_t-1520093304&utm_source=Yahoo&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=Accessories-Essential Audio Tools&utm_term=cleanbox&campaigntype=paidsearch&campaign=Accessories-Essential Audio Tools&adgroup=ART-Direct Box&keyword=cleanbox&placement=yahoo&device=c&matchtype=p&network=s

cleanbox_pro_front_lg.jpg

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On 3/2/2018 at 6:38 AM, diamonddelts said:

I much prefer passive crossovers.  I've never had an active crossover setup so I was interested in acquiring one. However, I've been unable to get any help on active crossover settings using a Xilica dsp unit for a three-way Jubilee. So it appears that dream is over.

 

The crossover should be about the same.  Bass bin is totally the same.  I would assume that the major cuts in the 402 horn should be similar but being a different driver I imagine it will be at least a little different.  I seriously doubt that the low shelf filter setting that brings up the upper treble is similar at all, you'd especially have to figure that part out on your own.  

 

Of course you could always ditch the 3-way. :)  Take those 510 horns off and swap to K-691 drivers.  Boom, fixed.  

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4 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

The crossover should be about the same.  Bass bin is totally the same.  I would assume that the major cuts in the 402 horn should be similar but being a different driver I imagine it will be at least a little different.  I seriously doubt that the low shelf filter setting that brings up the upper treble is similar at all, you'd especially have to figure that part out on your own.  

 

Of course you could always ditch the 3-way. :)  Take those 510 horns off and swap to K-691 drivers.  Boom, fixed.  

I've owned numerous 2-way speakers. I definitely cannot go back to that route. I'm very happy with the fidelity of the three way Jubilee setup. The only things that are bothering me at this time is that there is potentially another low frequency unit in the Klipsch pro cinema line which out class the Jubilee. It just bothers me that my money could take me a bit further up the Klipsch line if they have something better.

 

Also, I was wondering if there were any possible drop in replacements for the K 1133 and the K 691 CDs. They sound very good together as is however I know most Klipsch drivers tend to be mid-tier quality. I was wondering are there any higher end drivers that I could use as drop in replacements for the K1133 and the K691?

 

My last question is how much of a noticeable increase infidelity would it be if I switch the Jubilee bass bins for the kpt1515 bass bins if I'm using subs crossed over at 80-100hz?. It seems like the low frequency bass bins would not be as much of a big deal if you're using them with large subs crossed over between 80 to 100 Hertz.

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On 3/3/2018 at 2:42 PM, diamonddelts said:

I've owned numerous 2-way speakers. I definitely cannot go back to that route. I'm very happy with the fidelity of the three way Jubilee setup. The only things that are bothering me at this time is that there is potentially another low frequency unit in the Klipsch pro cinema line which out class the Jubilee. It just bothers me that my money could take me a bit further up the Klipsch line if they have something better.

 

Also, I was wondering if there were any possible drop in replacements for the K 1133 and the K 691 CDs. They sound very good together as is however I know most Klipsch drivers tend to be mid-tier quality. I was wondering are there any higher end drivers that I could use as drop in replacements for the K1133 and the K691?

 

My last question is how much of a noticeable increase infidelity would it be if I switch the Jubilee bass bins for the kpt1515 bass bins if I'm using subs crossed over at 80-100hz?. It seems like the low frequency bass bins would not be as much of a big deal if you're using them with large subs crossed over between 80 to 100 Hertz.

I use the Radian 760BePB 2" compression driver on my 402s.  

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On 3/3/2018 at 2:42 PM, diamonddelts said:

My last question is how much of a noticeable increase infidelity would it be if I switch the Jubilee bass bins for the kpt1515 bass bins if I'm using subs crossed over at 80-100hz?. It seems like the low frequency bass bins would not be as much of a big deal if you're using them with large subs crossed over between 80 to 100 Hertz.

I don't think many if any tried the 1515 like that to answer ? Don't know how high the 1515 would play to replace the Jub bass bin ?

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