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Klipsch vs. Axiom Audio, Fact or Fiction


vasubandu

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Tomorrow I am picking up an Outlaw 7700 amplifier and effectively a free 7.1 set of Axiom Audio speakers.  My original plan was just to sell the Axiom speakers, but the more I read about them, the more I wonder if I should just use them for the home theater and focus my Klipsch efforts on Music.  The speakers are 2x M80 Towers, 1x VP150 center, 4xQS8 surround and 1xEP500 subwoofer.

 

My question is whether anyone has done an actual comparison of Axiom and Klipsch at any level.  I am just as interested in subjective impressions as objective measurements.  I suspect that the set could be sold for $2,000 or so. Better off using it for the kids or selling it?

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Just now, vasubandu said:

Yeah @The History Kid I definitely will do that but still don't trust my own ears that much.

That's honestly part of the problem I think most people who drop tens of thousands of dollars on speaker wire have.  You don't trust your ears - your very sensory input that tells you what you hear - to tell you what you hear.  Ignoring what your own tastes are is not a wise decision in this field.

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Again @The History Kid I see the wisdom in what you are saying but I still wonder is dome might notice things that I did not.  If I still did not notice them after it was mentioned, then I would never base a decision on it.  I am still at a point where if people bring to something to my attention, I may notice it, but if I am on my own, I might not.  A lot of the time, what they point out does not bother me, and I ignore it, but other times once I notice it, it bugs me.  

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1 hour ago, Joe01880 said:
4 hours ago, vasubandu said:
Yeah [mention=58712]The History Kid[/mention] I definitely will do that but still don't trust my own ears that much.

Wrong, your ears are the only ones that matter!!!

Exactly, try to compare and see what you like best, if it sounds better to You it is better, it's who will be listening to it anyway. Trust your ears to what sounds better to you.

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6 hours ago, Joe01880 said:

Wrong, your ears are the only ones that matter!!!
 

 

At the end of the day of course this is true but critical listening is a learned skill set, someone in the early stages of this hobby is right to question their own judgment. Like someone once said (can't remember who of the top of my head) It's like taking your car to a mechanic because its making a "funny" noise, you have no idea what it is but he can tell you within seconds of hearing it, not because he has better hearing than you, he just knows from experience. 

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  At the end of the day of course this is true but critical listening is a learned skill set, someone in the early stages of this hobby is right to question their own judgment. Like someone once said (can't remember who of the top of my head) It's like taking your car to a mechanic because its making a "funny" noise, you have no idea what it is but he can tell you within seconds of hearing it, not because he has better hearing than you, he just knows from experience. 

 

The only way that statement would hold water is if you were 12. We will just have to agree to disagree. High end speakers cost big bucks. I'm not letting someone else spend my money. If the speaker I'm listening to sounds like crap to me and golden to you, you buy them. I want what sounds like angels singing to my ears, not yours..There may be a huge possibility that what sounds great to you might also sound great to me but in the end it's my money, I can spend it just fine and I trust my ears, they are the only ones that count!

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Joe01880 said:

The only way that statement would hold water is if you were 12. 

 

 

Inexperience can make the best equipment sound like crap and someone who knows how to set up things properly can make low end gear sound reasonably well. And then there are those who don't even know the difference, the struggle is real, I've seen it far too often. 

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4 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 It's like taking your car to a mechanic because its making a "funny" noise, you have no idea what it is but he can tell you within seconds of hearing it, not because he has better hearing than you, he just knows from experience. 

If you don't hear the funny noise, and your car isn't acting strangely, why would that even matter though?  The same analogy leaves open the mechanic who says "you need headlight fluid" - juxtaposed to the guy who says "you need $1,000 solid silver speaker wire."

 

I'm sorry, but that analogy doesn't hold much water.

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4 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

If you don't hear the funny noise, and your car isn't acting strangely, why would that even matter though?  The same analogy leaves open the mechanic who says "you need headlight fluid" - juxtaposed to the guy who says "you need $1,000 solid silver speaker wire."

 

I'm sorry, but that analogy doesn't hold much water.

Absolutely not the same at all. Systems can be set up improperly and not sound right and not just in a "my opinion matters more than yours kind of way." Do you also think that a beginner should tune his guitar or piano by ear? As long as it sounds "good" to him that's all that matters right? 

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5 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Absolutely not the same at all. Systems can be set up improperly and not sound right and not just in a "my opinion matters more than yours kind of way." Do you also think that a beginner should tune his guitar or piano by ear? As long as it sounds "good" to him that's all that matters right? 

That too is different.  When it comes down to it a sound system is something that is entirely subjective.  It's for the enjoyment of the owner.  It's not a necessity like a car, it's not a performing element like an instrument.  Why for the love of God should it matter to anyone else how someone does something?

 

Is the person who owns a cheap $120 Sony AVR and the entry level Klipsch speakers wrong because he enjoys the sound his system is giving him?  Is his system automatically inferior regardless of his own enjoyment because it's not the RP line and it's not a Denon AVR?  That's ridiculous, and you know it.  What ever happened to beauty is in the eye of the beholder?  Now it's got to be "it's in the eye of the beholder after he verifies that beauty with several other people."

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2 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

That too is different.  When it comes down to it a sound system is something that is entirely subjective.  It's for the enjoyment of the owner.  It's not a necessity like a car, it's not a performing element like an instrument.  Why for the love of God should it matter to anyone else how someone does something?

 

Is the person who owns a cheap $120 Sony AVR and the entry level Klipsch speakers wrong because he enjoys the sound his system is giving him?  Is his system automatically inferior regardless of his own enjoyment because it's not the RP line and it's not a Denon AVR?  That's ridiculous, and you know it.  What ever happened to beauty is in the eye of the beholder?  Now it's got to be "it's in the eye of the beholder after he verifies that beauty with several other people."

Maybe I'm not explaining myself or position clearly. This person has come this forum and posted this thread questioning his own abilities in discerning differences in quality between speaker brands / models. I say he is right in questioning his own abilities as we all should when starting / trying anything that is new to us, not just audio. To say that his own opinion is all that matters especially at such an early stage in this hobby is just painfully ignorant to me. Everyone gets a participation trophy and a slap on the back, Good job!!

 

 

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This discussion is too black and white.  The answer is neither, and both.

 

Yes trust your ears, yes get some validation, more importantly listen for yourself to a variety of systems.  

 

Learning to listen critically is a far different thing from enjoying whatever you're hearing.  It is not mandatory to an enjoyable experience.  

 

Here is the thing - you don't know what you don't know.  Maybe you're happy with xyz speakers.  Then, then you hear a friends speakers that sound 10x better to your ears.  But what's the deal, were you wrong before to enjoy what you had?  Were your ears wrong?  I've been through this, and it was eye opening for me at the time.  Do trust your ears, but be open minded (eared?) to listen to other systems to hear the differences.  

 

I think the point is valid both ways.  Don't blindly trust what people tell you.  DO take every opportunity to  listen to other peoples' systems, speakers.  Knowing of course that is their room their equipment, etc so it will not sound exactly the same in your space - but at least you get a good idea.  

 

Critical listening is a different topic, and yes it is a learned skill.  I got sick of that pursuit 20 years ago, because I decided I just want to enjoy music without picking it apart and thinking about every detail and nuance - which for me took away from the overall experience.

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24 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Maybe I'm not explaining myself or position clearly. This person has come this forum and posted this thread questioning his own abilities in discerning differences in quality between speaker brands / models. I say he is right in questioning his own abilities as we all should when starting / trying anything that is new to us, not just audio. To say that his own opinion is all that matters especially at such an early stage in this hobby is just painfully ignorant to me.

What is painfully ignorant is when you put the foundation of your own personal experience - any personal experience - underneath what someone else who is not in your room, not sitting where you're sitting, and not hearing the same things you're hearing's opinion.  That's painfully ignorant.  That's no different than looking at a sheet of paper and saying "this paper knows what I hear, clearly, and X is better that Y, because the paper says so."

 

I have no problems dispensing advice - as neither do you.  But the OP is asking for an opinion between two sets of speakers he owns or will own - regardless of our input.  He can test them IN HIS ROOM, use HIS ears, and use HIS set up to hear how they sound to him.  Why on earth would you try to alter his opinion before even he has a chance to hear these other speakers to formulate his own opinion first?  That's the cart before the horse.

 

To be clear - it's not that I totally disagree, third party input is important - but my issue is that people put too much stock into what other people think and put their own thoughts too low on the totem pole far too often, and that leads to people running around with a superiority complex, and others making bad decisions.

 

The true ignorance comes from people who don't try anything FIRST when there aren't any risks.

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Axiom makes a good product, the M80s are supposed to be quite good and several reviewers have said they punch above thier price point. A free set for TV and movies is a gift horse. You are then free to concentrate on Klipsch for your two channel system. Everyone wins.

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2 hours ago, YK Thom said:

Axiom makes a good product, the M80s are supposed to be quite good and several reviewers have said they punch above thier price point. A free set for TV and movies is a gift horse. You are then free to concentrate on Klipsch for your two channel system. Everyone wins.

 

Dang, are you a psychic?  We listened to the Axioms where we picked them up, and I was quite impressed.  It may have helped that they had an Outlaw 7700 amp, but they also had an Outlaw 990 with RCA connections.  It certainly would do the job and look nice.  

 

When I started this I had little interest in music.  I will call a two channel system music because that is what it means to me,  I have however, become interested in a few things about it.  First, I would love to get some speakers that I can open up and figure out. And then develop and try some ideas, and make an open baffle speaker.  So your suggestion is right on.

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OK let me explain the inexperienced listener thing from my perspective.  I actually have an analogy in mind.  Wine.  I did not really start to drink wine until I was 20 when I spent a year in France.  At first, it was OK, but I would not seek it out, and then I started to notice that I liked some more than others. But I knew nothing else.  And then I started to notice the variety and whether I liked it or not.  So I bought Cotes du Rhone, not Burgundy.  And then when I returned to the US, I kept drinking wines and noting the ones that I liked and the ones I did not. So I like Syrah and Merlot, but not Cabernet.  Even though I knew that, I could not taste a wine and tell you if it was a Syrah or a Merlot, only whether I liked it.  

 

I met people who were really into wine, and by sampling wines and discussing the flavors, I developed the ability to tell what I was drinking within limits.  I doubt that I would have figured that out on my own. And now I have friends are wine fanatics and a couple of them are trying to teach me to isolate flavors.  Why anyone would want to isolate the flavor of shoe leather is beyond me. I get parts of what that are saying, but I have pretty much reached my limit.  I like to drink wine that I like, and being able to tell what it is can be helpful.  But I don't want to tear it into pieces.

 

When it comes to sound, I do trust my ears, but I question my interpretation of what they hear.  Not in the sense of whether it is good or not.  I would never do anything if I did not like the way it sounded. I think that is really is more a question of potential.  Could this sound better?  So while my ears are the one that matter, they cannot miss things they have not heard,  and in a sense I cannot know if I like something if I have not learned how to listen for it.

 

So in the end, I think you are all right, but just saying slightly different things. @The History Kid ,@Joe01880 and @dtel you are right that I need to trust my own ears and not think that more money or more equipment is the answer. Plus it is what my family will like. If i lose sight of that, I am going to make a mess. No one else can have "the answer."  @jjptkd you are right that critical listening is a learned skill.  I have not heard this quality of sound in my home before, and it is impossible to judge something the first time you experience it.  When I had wies for the first time, I used to be able to say I liked it, but not that it was a good wine.  If I want to get to the point where I can say "this is good sound," then I need to learn enough to form that opinion, but I also have to make sure that it is my opinion and not someone else's. @bkevind there is a lot of wisom in what you say. I might be using the term listen critically incorrectly.  I don't ever want to listen in a way that tears apart what I am hearing.  I have had XYZ speakers for a long time and never been really happy with them, but also not knowing what to change.  It wasn't wrong before, but I want better.  I don't want perfect; I want something good enough that the family will actually notice it and still notice it in a year.

 

So in this question I really was looking for general impressions.  Is one brighter or more detailed? Is on stronger high and  the other low?  And any personal impression good or bad might be helpful because it might indirectly point to some difference.  I think that I can say without exception that all of the advice I have been given here came from the perspective that I needed to make up my own mind and no one was going to tell me what to do.  And I have really appreciated that.

 

For the time being, they are sill in my car.  When I get it set up, I will post a picture.  Bummer that the Outlaw 990 he gave me does not have HDMI.

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