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Klf20 or Quartets


Bill Johnson

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Hello All. Quick question. Between the Klf20 and the Quartet, which would be the better to tweak with Crites products and cabinet bracing/damping?  Also in what order will each fall, i.e. Which mod will result in the biggest affect in descending order greatest to least. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. Please be gentle, this is my first post on here.  Thanks again. 

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Welcome to the forum! Those are both great speakers, do you own them already or looking to buy?

 

The KLF-20's would benefit the most from cabinet bracing, they have known issues where the front and rear baffle can start to separate and cause vibrations and or a lack of bass. Also the mids on the 20's are dialed back -10db same as the forte which a lot of people like but I find them a little cold so I'd look into the titanium upgrade which bumps up output by about 1db and its a quality driver with greater detail. And then the usual which applies to both models, re-cap of the crossovers and titanium tweeters. Capacitors are likely toast and most people agree the titanium tweeters are an improvement, all of Klipsch's new speakers with the exception of the Heritage line which uses an entirely different tweeter uses titanium. 

 

As far as what order to do these things would depend on what needs to be done. If the cabinets on the 20's are loose securing them would be a priority. Titanium tweeters are the cheapest and easiest to swap out with a fairly noticeable improvement, its been called the best bang for your buck. Crossovers would have to be done before the titanium mids if you go that direction because they need a band-pass filter added to make them work properly. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, jjptkd said:

Welcome to the forum! Those are both great speakers, do you own them already or looking to buy?

 

The KLF-20's would benefit the most from cabinet bracing, they have known issues where the front and rear baffle can start to separate and cause vibrations and or a lack of bass. Also the mids on the 20's are dialed back -10db same as the forte which a lot of people like but I find them a little cold so I'd look into the titanium upgrade which bumps up output by about 1db and its a quality driver with greater detail. And then the usual which applies to both models, re-cap of the crossovers and titanium tweeters. Capacitors are likely toast and most people agree the titanium tweeters are an improvement, all of Klipsch's new speakers with the exception of the Heritage line which uses an entirely different tweeter uses titanium. 

 

As far as what order to do these things would depend on what needs to be done. If the cabinets on the 20's are loose securing them would be a priority. Titanium tweeters are the cheapest and easiest to swap out with a fairly noticeable improvement, its been called the best bang for your buck. Crossovers would have to be done before the titanium mids if you go that direction because they need a band-pass filter added to make them work properly. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

The mids are not -10db to the rest of the speaker though they are dialed back as far as the crossover is designed.  The horn is that much more efficient and needs to be dropped by a significant amount to balance to the woofers and tweeter.  If they were cold, the mid and treble should be dialed back more to warm them up with the bottom end.

 

With that said, the tweeter upgrade on klf-20s or the Quartets may make you happy as well as upgrading the capacitors.  Bracing is a key item.  Keep in mind everyone has their own tastes.  I like a slightly more padded down tweeter and as you see, some people like a raise in the tweeter.  You have to decide as a lot of people consider Klipsch speakers too bright which is why they are tamed in the higher frequency.  Go figure....

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2 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

The mids are not -10db to the rest of the speaker though they are dialed back as far as the crossover is designed.  The horn is that much more efficient and needs to be dropped by a significant amount to balance to the woofers and tweeter. 

 

Yes, I did not mean to imply that the mids were -10db from the rest of the drivers and I'm sure they sound just fine stock. It is my impression and only my opinion that they are teetering on being dialed back just a little too far (maybe 1 or 2db?) at least to my taste in my opinion so out of the two options for a mid driver upgrade you either have the A55-g which sets the output of the driver back even further by another -3db or the titanium driver which actually pushes the output up by 1db or so. Of course just leaving it alone is perfectly fine if you're happy with the way they sound now.

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Between the two I would likely vote Quartet... I had a pair of KLF20's and wasn't a huge fan? Though many people enjoy them...

 

That said, if I ever came across them for the right price, I have still considered buying a pair of KLF10's and swapping out the K100K tweeter assy with a K703 horn and the driver of my choosing... 

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14 hours ago, CANT said:

Between the two I would likely vote Quartet... I had a pair of KLF20's and wasn't a huge fan? Though many people enjoy them...

 

That said, if I ever came across them for the right price, I have still considered buying a pair of KLF10's and swapping out the K100K tweeter assy with a K703 horn and the driver of my choosing... 

So you'd set the mid horn on the top?

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12 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

So you'd set the mid horn on the top?

 

Yeah, they are the same horn basically... but the KLF10/CF1 tweeter horn only allows a standard 3 bolt Klipsch tweeter motor to be attached to it where as the KLF20/23/CF2 horn has an industry standard 1-3/8"-18 mount 

 

KLF-10KLF-20

 

 

 

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On 1/21/2018 at 8:03 PM, CANT said:

Between the two I would likely vote Quartet... I had a pair of KLF20's and wasn't a huge fan? Though many people enjoy them...

 

That said, if I ever came across them for the right price, I have still considered buying a pair of KLF10's and swapping out the K100K tweeter assy with a K703 horn and the driver of my choosing... 

Look at the upper end components..... Crossover crossover crossover.

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On 1/20/2018 at 5:59 AM, Bill Johnson said:

Between the Klf20 and the Quartet, which would be the better to tweak with Crites products and cabinet bracing/damping?  Also in what order will each fall, i.e. Which mod will result in the biggest affect in descending order greatest to least.

 

1. Ti tweeter diaphragm - #1 most noticeable mod without a doubt, in nearly any classic Klipsch this update is available for

2. Ti midrange diaphragm - Some people think this can make their speakers a bit too bright, other find it brings clarity and detail. I thought my KLF20's were already kind of bright so I'm not sure I would go Ti in those but that's just my opinion. If bright is a concern in either application you could also try new phenolic diaphragms? Some people might also suggest a K55V or A55G swap in the KLF's, I'm not a fan of either idea but again that is my opinion. I do believe, no matter what you might choose to do, that changing the midrange driver or diaphragm is absolutely #2 in the scope of noticeable changes

3. Updating Capacitors - I'm mostly referring to the one on the mid and 2 on the tweet. I believe changes to these can go in all sorts of directions, good and bad. I've swapped all sort of things in for the one cap in the LF network and never noticed a thing? My general rule of thumb is to keep the values at or under the original for the tweeter and at or over for the midrange. I also tend to keep things pretty reasonable in this category...  there are lots of great caps that don't cost as much as the speakers themselves... and you can also always just add bypass caps

4. Replacing the Tweeter inductor & resistor - If you can fit it or are going to move the crossover to a new board a better inductor and resistor can be nice but you are starting to get down there in the scope of what you will really notice

5. Replacing the autoformer? - I thought the T2A sounded better than the T7A in the KLF's and the Crites pieces were better than the T2A but the change wasn't huge so...?

6. Replacing the LF network components - As far as I'm concerned you only do this if you are a completest or just for fun. If there was a change I've never noticed it. 

 

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On 1/23/2018 at 1:42 PM, CANT said:

 

 

2. Ti midrange diaphragm - Some people think this can make their speakers a bit too bright, other find it brings clarity and detail. I thought my KLF20's were already kind of bright so I'm not sure I would go Ti in those but that's just my opinion. If bright is a concern in either application you could also try new phenolic diaphragms? Some people might also suggest a K55V or A55G swap in the KLF's, I'm not a fan of either idea but again that is my opinion. I do believe, no matter what you might choose to do, that changing the midrange driver or diaphragm is absolutely #2 in the scope of noticeable changes

 

 

On your #2, many find Ti diaphragms unnatural sounding in the mids.  I fit that category and think Phenolic the way to go.  You just don't have the ability to do a two way configuration with phenolic, at least easily, when used.  More warm sounding as the Ti might not be bright but kind of like a tube vs Bryston sound, smooth and luxurious vs fast and hard.

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4 hours ago, pzannucci said:

On your #2, many find Ti diaphragms unnatural sounding in the mids.  I fit that category and think Phenolic the way to go.  You just don't have the ability to do a two way configuration with phenolic, at least easily, when used.  

 

Yeah, I personally think that the bright/detailed nature of the Ti is one of the reasons they may have raised the crossover points of the HIII and CWIII... bringing in a bit more of the woofer for warmth. I've switched back and forth in my CWI/III's and actually like both diaphragms for the reasons stated reason. This back and forth is actually one of the reasons why I started the topic on the 127120 to try and see what other peoples opinion of it were in relation to its design/material updates. Not that I can ever seem to take any ones word for anything and will likely just end up just trying them out for myself... I will also one day try out the K66E/PSD2002-16 as a K52 replacement. I have tried the PSD2002-8 as a tweeter and didn't much care for it but the idea of using this driver as a mid is interesting? 

 

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