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Zen Traveler

Thinkers and Malcontents

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25 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

I must have missed that day, but what lead to the demise of ANY political talk is folks getting nasty, not that they disagree....Honestly, I shake my head at some of the things grown men discuss on ANY forum and the reason regulars stay here is for the comradery, and yes the love of our Klipsch Speakers and the sound they reproduce. 

Dont forget what happened on the AVS forum during the Blu Ray vs HD DVD war. I guess people were actually threatening violence and law enforcement got involved causing the forum to shut down for a week.

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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

The problem isn't like twistedcrankenhammer states but his perspective. Otoh, only  one of has been cautioned by moderators  that we needed to be more civil and it wasn't me. I also didn't complain but was exposing why more people didn't join the discussion and as I mentioned, had no problem being in the minority in the other place at the end and the beginning which was during Republican Administrations...During the Obama years it was a pretty quiet place and no one seemed to really have any complaints. :) 

 

 

Exactly Zen, a one sided stacked deck you seem to be incapable of comprehending or remembering!

 

Roger

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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

This observation is interesting on several levels. First, we have different memories of the original BS Forum you were a member of and second, at the end of the last one pretty much everyone except 1 person was supporting the candidate and party I was.

 

^^^^ Isn't this, exactly what I stated ??

 

1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

While I was there only 3 of us were involved and both of you were against my positions. Did that change after I left? Did more people get involved and were they all saying the kind of things that I couldn't even have written in either of the other BS Forums? Seriously. 

 

^^^^^ selective memory.

 

 

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

Wow Roger, isn't it surprising that you call it a stacked deck when you were supposedly in the minority, but it seems you had no objection when you were supposedly in the majority on FB?  How odd......

 

^^^^^ Just stating the human equation, it was exactly the same on both forums only in reverse. Neither side was innocent, despite what the two of you say !!  :D

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Once again, herein lies the problem. There really shouldn’t be “sides”. As a supposedly civilized society we should be able to reach for common goals. This is impossible for some to understand and work towards. It’s “my side” or “the other side”. I can’t decide if it’s sad or downright disgusting. 

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As far as claims to blatant cussing or outright name calling, I don't think anyone that knows the Christian that Dave is, that he would let that go on?? As far as being refered to a crystalized ice form that falls from the sky, yrs, that is probable and nothing worse than I endured in BS forum.  :D

 

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11 hours ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

Exactly Zen, a one sided stacked deck you seem to be incapable of comprehending or remembering!

 

You made it see like it was against you. It wasn't and claiming to be "in the minority" is where I think you have selective memory. After all, it was a long time ago when you participated. 

 

11 hours ago, twistedcrankcammer said:
Quote

While I was there only 3 of us were involved and both of you were against my positions. Did that change after I left? Did more people get involved and were they all saying the kind of things that I couldn't even have written in either of the other BS Forums? Seriously. 

 

^^^^^ selective memory.

Wait? What part are you disputing? I am no longer a member of your forum, but at the end of my participation it was only you, Gilbert and myself posting. That can be checked if you are still a member. Otoh, I am absolutely positive the things you said about Hillary and McCain couldn't be said of any other two individuals, regardless of politics. That's my memory and can also be verified by those that still have access. I don't.

 

Hey. I'm ready to rejoin if things have changed but if it died down after I left don't think I can contribute to what y'all are trying to accomplish. 

 

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37 minutes ago, dtel's wife said:

Once again, herein lies the problem. There really shouldn’t be “sides”. As a supposedly civilized society we should be able to reach for common goals. This is impossible for some to understand and work towards. It’s “my side” or “the other side”. I can’t decide if it’s sad or downright disgusting. 

I'm not sure how to address this comment but not engaging in the debate is where I think the problem lies... If whatever side you are on has all of the answers please feel free to enlighten us. :) Seriously! I'm sure my participation in any forum shows respect for others views and my fault seemed to be that I sometimes gave a different perspective they didn't appreciate.

 

Btw, all that complaining by some that the rules weren't fair and everyone was against them would be hard pressed to say I couldn't make that argument--In fact, twistedcrankenhamer did describing the Facebook group, but there were only the three of us involved while I was there, 

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32 minutes ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

I don't think anyone that knows the Christian that Dave is, that he would let that go on??

I will let Dave speak for himself because there isn't anyone whom I've had more delightful (and MANY) religious conversation  with than him over the last 15 years...Otoh, I also have a thick skin and what you said about John McCain and Hillary Clinton offended me. If you felt comfortable saying that in person I would be surprised and saddened--Just sayin given we aren't the kind of guys who hang out together in real life and probably good that we were exposed to each other online. 

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I will make a couple of comments.

FB page is still there, but went quiet after ZT left. Yes, largely due to those left all having the same viewpoints. 

 

I said when I set it up I would not moderate. I came to the old BS a long time ago and it took a while to realize it was all just jousting. There was no one there who was a regular participant I did not learn to respect. I learned to call out ad hominems for what they are...something that comes out of someone who has no facts at their disposal and when someone resorted to that I simply left the conversation rather than participate. 

 

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about these matters. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

You forgot Gilbert's cousin was on the left-side of the FB group.

I don't think he showed up until after ZT left. Quite a good debater, and good sport as well. 

Dave

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17 minutes ago, Mallette said:

 

FB page is still there, but went quiet after ZT left. Yes, largely due to those left all having the same viewpoints. 

I didn't persue this while I was there because you had a lot going and realized you had a lot going on. For the record, outside of religion we seldom ever agreed and I REALLY wanted to pursue yours and others "RIP Theory." Given you didn't engage and the only other person commenting on my 2 weeks there was a nice lady and the two dudes I mentioned....Insofar as moderating goes, you made me a moderator and then one of the people I keep mentioning on a higher rung AND expressing vulgar opinions (by anyone's standards--That can be verified unless deleted) that were ridicules to address...He actually stated he believed no confirmed news source and subscribed to conspiracy theories of the one that had been discredited. Not my cup of tea and no one wants to be around that behavior....

 

Again. We've come full circle to me first learning a racist is the one who got our 15+ year Klipsch Forum group disbanded at a time *someone* was also stoking the racial divide both here and abroad. You and I both agree those forums were a good thing yet they no longer exist because of external sources and that really bothers me (although more in theory than in substance because this is Klipsch's forum to do as they wish).

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42 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

(although more in theory than in substance because this is Klipsch's forum to do as they wish).

That's the important thing to remember. Obviously there are a variety of viewpoints on why BS was shut down and I have my own, but the forbearance shown for over a decade should be remembered.  

 

Dave

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8 hours ago, Mallette said:

I learned to call out ad hominems for what they are...something that comes out of someone who has no facts at their disposal and when someone resorted to that I simply left the conversation rather than participate. 

You know how how much I enjoyed and learned from our discussions, but you never stood up for me when I complained about the ad hominems. In fact, you said they were going to be frowned upon so I was excited to joined your Facebook group....If you or anyone has the inkling, go back and look at the comments prior to my last post and you will find ad hominems that would have gotten people in trouble in either reiteration of the BS Forum....No. I never met Paul Klipsch but did read his biography and heard antidotes about his life and there is a big difference in uttering "Bullshit" when someone tells you something you know not to be true and saying you hope someone dies of cancer or you would personally shoot another person that others respected if you had the chance. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mallette said:

Obviously there are a variety of viewpoints on why BS was shut down

I was able to get quite a few threads I found interesting from the old places prior to them shutting down and it pains me deeply that I didn't retrieve some of the more political threads about the election....If there is anyway I could have a chance to get them it would be greatly appreciated because it was and excellent historic time capsule and exposes what our government is looking into now. @Chad On that note, I do have several threads on communication and propaganda that I was able to get and they are EXTREMELY relevant today. 

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39 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

If you or anyone has the inkling, go back and look at the comments prior to my last post and you will find ad hominems that would have gotten people in trouble in either reiteration of the BS Forum...

I don't have to go back.  I remember - not specifics, but I remember the nasty jabs.  They came from people who were not prior members of BS, and I don't think they were even members of the Klipsch forum.   

 

The nice thing about the BS section was that it was for Klipsch members who actually wanted to engage in political discussion.  Nobody was a troll (at least mostly).  Once a troll gets involved and disrupts the intellectual flow, it degrades.

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19 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I don't have to go back.  I remember - not specifics, but I remember the nasty jabs.  They came from people who were not prior members of BS, and I don't think they were even members of the Klipsch forum.   

You must be remembering something wrong or it happened after I left. The conversation I mentioning going over the line was with Gilbert and that twisted crank fellow. There was no one else posting in that forum except us three and I was looking forward to discussing your thoughts but it seemed you would post something and then not re-engage.

 

Btw, if there were "nasty jabs" made towards me after I left by strangers then leaving was a good decision...Suffice it to say anyone who knows me personally will tell you I am not easily offended or a pacifist.  I engage in these discussions because they are important and the same guy in person as I am on the internet.

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1 minute ago, Zen Traveler said:

You must be remembering something wrong or it happened after I left. The conversation I thought went over the line was with Gilbert and that twisted crank fellow. There was no one else posting in that forum except us three and I was looking forward to discussing your thoughts but it seemed you would post something and then not re-engage.

OK.  I don't remember that, but maybe so.  I seem to recollect someone else carrying on like a sailor.  Gilbert and TKH....  Shaaaaaaame on you!

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