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KLF-30 instead of CF-4. Win or lose?


vasubandu

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40 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

The CF-4 is over 100lbs I believe, that and the fact the woofers and mid drivers are no longer easily replaceable and I guess lack of availability since I've only ever seen the one pair local have pretty much kept me away from even entertaining the idea of the CF-4 in my home.  

Those CF-4's are pretty robust.  In the last four years I've heard of one woofer blowing, and a guy bought a couple of CF-4 compression drivers from me a year ago, so things do go south but it's rare.

 

The EV DH1506 is suitable replacement for the K-63-n mid driver and is readily available for about $75 on the used market.  That's what I run in my CF-4's and it is an upgrade IMO.

 

They are rare and hard to find on the used market.  That's because those who have them love 'em and won't let them go.  B)

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I have heard SWLs modified KLFs and have never heard a better Klipsch speaker.  [emoji123]
 
the cf4 design places the tweeter lower and imo is better suited for a baffle wall.
Rob, you should stop by again if your in the area. After sealing-bracing the cabs and the new Ciare woofers it's a huge improvement since you were here last. Two years ago?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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On 1/27/2018 at 3:30 PM, vasubandu said:

@klipschfancf4 I hope you found replacements for them. Sure are hard to find. Thanks for the advice. 

 

You're welcome.  Sadly i havent found any replacements for them yet... i should have just kept them but felt i needed to "upgrade" to k-horns & used the sale of teh epics to go towards them.  Dont get me wrong, the k-horns are great speakers & ive lusted after them since i was a teenager, but in my small basement with higer power solid state "mid-fi" gear they dont sound as good as they could/should.  but hopefully someday soon i will have a better location for them & better gear.

 

Chorus2's are excellent speakers but i dont think they are better than the cf-4... 2 12" woofers move a lot more air than a single 15" woofer, & the epics are tuned to go lower & its really noticeable at higher volumes.  the epics are a hard act to follow, especially considering all the points i mentioned above.  all in all they are one of the best speakers klipsch made & in some ways better than any speakers they made.  IMO   ;) 

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If I do, in fact, decide to keep my CF-3's and not sell them (now that Belle's are done), I am going to build a new front baffle and change them to a WWT instead of the WTW like the KG 5.5, KLF-10, etc.  It's worth a try and won't modify the original baffle at all.  That was my intention of doing before building the Belle's, but, the Belle's ended up going first.  

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9 hours ago, SWL said:

Rob, you should stop by again if your in the area. After sealing-bracing the cabs and the new Ciare woofers it's a huge improvement since you were here last. Two years ago?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for the invite Id love to stop by in Summer...super busy for now.  Must be amazing if they sound even better sealed up

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Don't forget, there are 3 different versions of the cf-4. The first is supposed to be the best, the 2nd only minor differences & the series 3 the worst... So hard to rate a persons comparison without knowing which series they had.

 

 

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On 1/29/2018 at 7:38 AM, jjptkd said:

I believe, that and the fact the woofers and mid drivers are no longer easily replaceable and I guess lack of availability since I've only ever seen the one pair local have pretty much kept me away from even entertaining the idea of the CF-4 in my home.  

As wvu80 stated, there are compression driver replacements for the CF-4 if you can't find the stock cd.

As far as the woofers go, that's the issue.  If you have ver. 1 and you wait forever for replacement woofers to pop up, there's a chance it could be the cheaper, lighter woofers from version 3.

I wonder if the Ciare 12" woofers are suitable replacements as they are for the KLF-30's.  I don't know anything about the crossover points and all that mess to see if they would work with CF-4's so maybe someone can take a quick look?

specs for the Ciare drivers
http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw321-1.htm

Specs for CF-4
http://207.67.68.51/forums/storage/4/1041393/Epic.pdf

crossover frequency for CF-4 = 1500hz

 

so if Ciare woofers have a frequency response of 25hz-2.5khz  does that mean it works fine b/c the cf-4 network will cut the 2 drivers off at 1500hz and let the compression driver take over?  I really don't know how this stuff works lol..probably time to learn if i'm spending so much time thinking about speakers and posting on a speaker forum.

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I agree with you there. I built the Belles, therefore those will be with me till the end and then my kids can do with them what they wish. Lol. Fortunately, they like music, too, so maybe they'll live on as an heirloom of crap I can build. 😁

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9 hours ago, Maximus89 said:

As wvu80 stated, there are compression driver replacements for the CF-4 if you can't find the stock cd.

As far as the woofers go, that's the issue.  If you have ver. 1 and you wait forever for replacement woofers to pop up, there's a chance it could be the cheaper, lighter woofers from version 3.

I wonder if the Ciare 12" woofers are suitable replacements as they are for the KLF-30's.  I don't know anything about the crossover points and all that mess to see if they would work with CF-4's so maybe someone can take a quick look?

specs for the Ciare drivers
http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw321-1.htm

Specs for CF-4
http://207.67.68.51/forums/storage/4/1041393/Epic.pdf

crossover frequency for CF-4 = 1500hz

 

so if Ciare woofers have a frequency response of 25hz-2.5khz  does that mean it works fine b/c the cf-4 network will cut the 2 drivers off at 1500hz and let the compression driver take over?  I really don't know how this stuff works lol..probably time to learn if i'm spending so much time thinking about speakers and posting on a speaker forum.

Considering the crossover point, you may need some small mods for the Clare woofers.  They seem to go into some breakup mode peak in the crossover region that would likely need compensation for.  That parallel notch filter would have to be added and tested with the current crossover. 

That said, it is possible that the Klipsch woofer, due to it's material, had a similar peak that has already be designed into the crossover.

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1 hour ago, rockhound said:

The 30's are nice if the cabs are sealed up. I've owned both and a lot more Klipsch stuff I still have the CF-4's.

 

You probably have had the CF-4 for long enough that they are boring.  No matter how good it is, the same thing gets boring over time. I could take them off your hands.

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Buy some Klipsch speakers and tell us what you think. 

 

These how do X compare to Y threads are pointless. You and the rest of us need a data point to start from. 

 

For all you know, CF-4's sound like crap, or not. 

 

Bluntly,

 

me

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1 hour ago, vasubandu said:

 

You probably have had the CF-4 for long enough that they are boring.  No matter how good it is, the same thing gets boring over time. I could take them off your hands.

 

I've owned a few Klipsch speakers over the years. I listened to Khorns and wasn't impressed. LaScala's, wasn't impressed. The same Khorn seller had Chorus II and Forte II. I listened to all and bought the Chorus II. I bought 2 pair of NIB KT-LCR's from a dealer out of state for $100 each. Bought some stands and filled the stands with lead shot. That put the MTM horn at ear level. Sat a 12" Klipsch sub between them. If a person wanted to listen to music rather than collect speakers the KT-LCR's sounded great in my room with a tube amp and I could have lived with them for 2-channel and been happy. After a couple of years of waiting patiently I finally found a pair of KSO-400's to go with my dealer KSP-300's. That was over 15 years ago. Everything is gone but the KSP's. They don't need hundreds or thousands of dollars of 'upgrades' to make the sound that I like in my room. YMMV

 

Keith

 

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On 1/30/2018 at 8:22 PM, Maximus89 said:

I wonder if the Ciare 12" woofers are suitable replacements as they are for the KLF-30's.  I don't know anything about the crossover points and all that mess to see if they would work with CF-4's so maybe someone can take a quick look?

That's a good question.  I know what would make a good non-OEM compression driver replacement but I don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about 12" woofer replacements.

 

The big problem is matching them up, meaning it wouldn't sound good to replace one, you would need four, which means $$$$.  I don't know how to read woofer specs so I don't know what would be a good drop-in replacement.

 

Ironically even though the CF-4's have dual 12's they do NOT make low bass.  The cones move very little and the result is ultra low distortion with a mid range that is accurate.  I think if you came up with a super 12" woofer it would dramatically change the characteristic sound.  To me they sound best as a 3-way, meaning the 2-way CF-4 paired with at least a 15" sub.

 

 

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