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vasubandu

KLF-30 instead of CF-4. Win or lose?

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I had a suggestion to consider klf-30s instead of the cf-4.  I like what I see. Better,  worse or the same? And if you say better then what else is out there with 2 12 in woofers? 

 

There is a set available a few hours away.  KLF-30 klf20 and  7. He is the original owner and I could get it under 2k. Thoughts? 

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I can tell you that the KLF-30 in stock form is nothing to write home about. In fact, there is a good chance it will be defective in one way or another. Sad but true.

However, if your willing to do some simple DIY work and spend about $1200-$1400 on upgraded parts.....you could have an absolutely outstanding sounding speaker that would cost 4-6 grand if bought new.

Put it this way.....and this is coming from someone who used to have three pairs of RF-7'S...... Upgraded KLF-30'S are everything and MORE that you wish your 7's could be. I would put them somewhere in the category of sounding somewhere in between a Heritage speaker and a Reference speaker but definitely leaning towards the Reference sound......and dare I say the Palladium sound.

Pretty strong statement, huh? Damn right.

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I have klf20's and klf10's . My son @dtr20 has klf30's and rf7's. With that said , we have Crites tweeters and fixed cabinets and rebuilt crossovers.

With all that ,I think the  klf 30's are a great speaker , way better than rf7. 

The klf20's are a great speaker  and I think they are better than the rf7.

Like @SWL said , with a little work  they will be awesome.

Crites tweeters are about $70 , you will spend some money on the crossovers unless you rebuild them yourself. If you did get them , you will have an awesome hometheater  and great 2 channel

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1 hour ago, ZEUS121996 said:

Or you can wait until they get sold from under you AGAIN!

 

OK, good point, but really?  You are being cruel.  :blink:

  • Haha 1

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I wasn't too impressed by stock KLF-30s , but i do get jealous at all the options to mod the KLF series as compared to the lack of mods to do on the Chorus II's.  There's the TI tweeters from Crites(Done. Improvement)  Theres the Ti mid diaphragms from the Cornwall III and Heresy III that 99% of people seem to hate and only Moray James seems to absolutely recommend.  It would require a band pass that Crites can install to his crossovers which can be reversed. I wonder if it's worth a try if i used a more warmer sounding cap for the mids?   Then there's the added weight to the passive radiator that Moray also recommends which i have not tried, but supposed to extend almost as low as what the modified KLF-30 can do.

So really there's just the option of choosing between Crites xover or going with higher end parts and getting Dean to make the xover.

Don't get me wrong. The Chorus II to date is my favorite speaker(not comparing to KHorns or pros and never heard CF-4), as i prefer it's balance over the La Scalas and mid range over Cornwalls and Reference series.  But, i'm mostly peanut butter and jealous at the people who can test the A55G mid driver and now i'm reading about the new woofer that extends even lower for the KLF-30s. 

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He's asking about cf-4 vs klf 30's, not sure why the chorus ii & rf7s are being discussed or heavily modified klf30's... 

 

My .02 is that the cf-4 are the better speaker than the 30's in stock form.  As mentioned the klf's had some pretty major defects in the cabinets, yes you can fix them & yes they can be modified to be a nice speaker.  Aside from the cabinet issues they are a good sounding speaker for the average used price & seem to come up for sale a lot more than the epics.  BUT, if you want the cf-4's & can be patient they do pop up for sale from time to time & IMO they are worth the wait.  

 

Yes im a little biased if you guessed by my user name, but i can say when i sold my cf4s to upgrade to k-horns i still kick myself for selling them to this day! the k-horns are a great speaker & in the right room with the right components & good recordings of music can sound excellent, but the problem is the "right room" is harder to come by or make than just having a speaker that sounds good in almost any room with almost any gear & recordings.  To me, all things considered the cf-4 is better in that regard than most speakers out there in the same ballpark price range, including klipsch.  But as with anything, everyone has their opinions & no 2 systems/rooms/ears are alike, so what one guy thinks is "better" may not apply to the next guy.

 

To answer your question again, the cf-4 is a better speaker than the klf.. in my opinion.

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Just now, TomR said:

Did you pick up the klf s

Not yet. He is 300 miles away and I have to plan.  He is holding them. 

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I wasn't too impressed by stock KLF-30s , but i do get jealous at all the options to mod the KLF series as compared to the lack of mods to do on the Chorus II's. 


You should be jealous. (had to do it )

Here's all the fun you can have upgrading your KLF-30'S.......

1. Titanium tweeter diaphragms = $60.00
2. A-55-G midrange drivers = $300.00
3. Crites crossovers with new internal wiring $300.00
4. Ciare 12" woofers = $600.00
5. Reinforcing and sealing cabinets = Less than $20.00

You don't have to be an electronics wizard or a union carpenter to do any of this.


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On 1/27/2018 at 6:45 PM, SWL said:

Here's all the fun you can have upgrading your KLF-30'S.......

1. Titanium tweeter diaphragms = $60.00
2. A-55-G midrange drivers = $300.00
3. Crites crossovers with new internal wiring $300.00
4. Ciare 12" woofers = $600.00
5. Reinforcing and sealing cabinets = Less than $20.00

And then they will sound as good as Chorus II

:D

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That's funny but I think the point is that Klipsch made all these speakers at a so called "price point". All the older Klipsch speakers I've heard over the last 15 years or so that sounded bad, could be seriously improved with better parts.

 

Buy em used in good condition, fix em up and THEN you've really got something.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, SWL said:

All the older Klipsch speakers I've heard over the last 15 years or so that sounded bad, could be seriously improved with better parts.

I agree.

What's funny about that is that, for the $, foot print, loudness, wife factor and such, they beat the other stock speakers. 

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9 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

And then they will sound as good as Chorus II

:D

Basically, the KLF30 has the same components as other Klipsch, including Heritage Fortes, Chorus and such.  You get two twelve inch woofers that some may like or dislike.  They are problematic in certain rooms but not sure why everyone says they don't sound good.  Then I guess the others don't sound good either.   Different loading in the enclosure due to width and rear ports and tweaks to the crossover but much of the same.

 

With speakers there is always room for improvement but does the KLF need that?  Well do the Heritage need it?

Each person has to be the judge but I'm still trying why some folks give them a bad rap other than the front and rear panels :huh:

 

If you do as SWL has done, outside of the crossover which could have been very inexpensive or not done at all, you will possibly have a speaker you like better but in stock form, it is very much the same as the rest of the speakers that came before it, sans the paper woofers.

 

As for the CF4, that will really depend on if you like two way or three way loading.  Both implementations have their pluses.

 

To properly listen to an MTM (CF4) and get correct midrange, the speaker needs to be positioned as such to avoid a suck out in the crossover region.  Get above or below the midrange/treble horn and your frequency response goes to a smile at best.  Almost as bad as a ribbon.  Have them positioned correctly and they almost sound like a three way.

 

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35 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Well do the Heritage need it?

Each person has to be the judge but I'm still trying why some folks give them a bad rap other than the front and rear panels :huh:

Not sure that they get any more of a bad rap than any of the others. A lot of people claim the RF are shouty; the LaScala and Heresy not having bass; Cornwall needs more mids; the Extended Heritage are placement sensitive and some women hate the looks of the big Khorn, but those women are stupid :D and the best thing about the Belle is her looks. After all of that, they, stock, still beat the competition and with a few mods can sound even better.   

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

Not sure that they get any more of a bad rap than any of the others. A lot of people claim the RF are shouty; the LaScala and Heresy not having bass; Cornwall needs more mids; the Extended Heritage are placement sensitive and some women hate the looks of the big Khorn, but those women are stupid :D and the best thing about the Belle is her looks. After all of that, they, stock, still beat the competition and with a few mods can sound even better.   

 

 

You have some good points.. :lol:

My other half loved the looks of the Khorns due to:

1.  Looked like nice furniture in the corners and really don't take usable space.

2. They were in the corners and she hates speakers that need to be plopped out into the room like two statues.

 

The best part, as I have said before about Klipsch speakers, with the efficiency and basic components, they can be hot-rodded fairly inexpensively, bringing them to a level where a lot of other speakers can't go even after you spent 20k.

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You have to keep in mind that the KLF line 30/20/10 replaced the Chorus/forte/Quartet obviously moving toward a tower speaker trying to match the same performance with pretty much the same top end. My impression of the 30's when I had them was they did capture the top end of the Chorus II for the most part but bass was more like the forte II, not quite as tight or snappy as the Chorus bass, maybe somewhere in the middle of the two? 

 

My biggest complaint about the 30's besides the obviously cheapo cabinets in comparison to the older models was the woofers-- I actually broke/blew two of them up in a single night and finding replacements was a nightmare, I got very lucky finding factory woofers on eBay when I did as I have not seen many (if any) since. I don't like the idea of using an accordion style surround woofers in high output / high excursion cabinet applications, just doesn't seem like they would work as well. I'm glad to see the Ciare woofers available, I wouldn't hesitate to order those up if I landed another pair of 30's.

 

I've only seen one pair of CF-4's for sale locally years ago and I did get to listen to them when I purchased his KV-4 center speaker. At the time honestly I turned my nose up at the idea of a 2-way speaker since the ones that I had heard at the time (KG) were no where close to the 3-ways I owned. I remember being a little surprised at how good they actually sounded but just shrugged them off as, I was content with my Chorus II's. 

 

I'm getting older and my back doesn't appreciate my speaker hunting activities like it use to, it is a bear moving around 90lb Choruses, I really think that is my limit for a one man grab and I feel it in the morning afterwards. The CF-4 is over 100lbs I believe, that and the fact the woofers and mid drivers are no longer easily replaceable and I guess lack of availability since I've only ever seen the one pair local have pretty much kept me away from even entertaining the idea of the CF-4 in my home.  
 

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On 1/27/2018 at 2:57 PM, klipschfancf4 said:

but i can say when i sold my cf4s to upgrade to k-horns i still kick myself for selling them to this day!

 

the k-horns are a great speaker & in the right room

 

with the right components & good recordings of music can sound excellent, but the problem is the "right room" is harder to come by or make than just having a speaker that sounds good in almost any room with almost any gear & recordings.  To me,

 

all things considered the cf-4 is better in that regard than most speakers out there in the same ballpark price range, including klipsch.

Your post certainly contains wisdom and experience combined.

 

I had all the problems with the Khorns as you noted.  Mine were in corners but I had a terrible room for them and I just couldn't integrate them well with a 5.1 setup.  That and the WAF meant the Khorns had to go, but I regret selling them.  You just can't beat the enormous front soundstage of the Khorns.

 

I sold the Khorns, kept the CF-4's.

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