KLF-30 instead of CF-4. Win or lose?

[SWL]

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[Maximus89]

 
Tried working my way through this thread but stopped at the claim that 99% of people seem to hate the CWIII and HIII.   ..How could someone possibly know this?

Come on. 99% is an obvious exaggeration to just say that most people I’ve come across through the boards dislike the ti mids. Crites says the same and does not recommend them.

Seems like you took it as a personal attack on your own speaker. Has nothing to do with the CWIII. That speaker was built with the ti mid in mind. What I refer to is people putting the Ti mid diaphragm from the HIII and CWIII into Fortes, Chorus, KLFs etc.


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[STV_Keith]

So, I figured I'd post this here on this thread...from my FB post in the Klipsch Fanatics group.

 

I finally got the living room to the point where I could put together some of the system and compare the CF-4 v3's to the KLF-30's. Each pair were connected to a Yamaha MX-800u amp, running off the speaker A output. They are 170w RMS / 270w peak, per channel, driven from a Yamaha RX-A2050.

 

Overall, I have to pick the CF-4's for 2-channel use, if you can only have one pair. The CF-4's have more low bass where the KLF's seemed to be a little tighter, but didn't go as low. The CF-4's also had more in the lower mid range and more at the very top from what I heard. The KLF-30's had more in the midrange, were more vocal, but not as bright on the very top.

 

The KLF-30's will make an excellent center channel speaker in my HT setup though, once I get to that in this house. I will say that having both pairs running at once sounds FANTASTIC. The two models complement each other very well.

[DEP14]

Like many of you I have owned lots of Klipsch over the years (although with some serious gaps in between)..

 

KG4's, Quartets, kg 3.2's, Palladium P37's (along with the P27c center).  Haven't modded any of them (yet).

 

I still have the 3.2's (exercise room beaters).

 

The Palladium's were really good, but did get a little bright for me when pushed and were really lean in the bass.  But they had no horn coloration that I could detect.

 

Recently, I came into the KLF30's and the CF4's.

 

Both are good.  I like the CF4's a bit better (bone stock).  Slightly smoother and a bit lower bass response.  I do detect a little horn coloration, but it's not bad.  

 

Honestly, I like the CF4's a bit better than I liked the Palladium P37's.

 

The KLF 30's are really good, I can see how with mods they might become spectacular. I'm selling the 30's (I think), but part of me wants to mod the heck of out them and shoot them out with stock CF4's.

 

Got really lucky finding the CF4's fairly local.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SWL]

 
The KLF 30's are really good, I can see how with mods they might become spectacular. I'm selling the 30's (I think), but part of me wants to mod the heck of out them and shoot them out with stock CF4's.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ah....funny you should mention this.

A friend of mine has all the upgrades to his Klf-30's except doesn't have the Ciare woofers yet. He came across a deal on some stock cherry CF-4's that he couldn't pass up. Now he has both in his listening room and we compared side by side.

I'm being as fair as I can be because I'd like to snag a pair of Cf-4's someday based on what I heard when I demoed them over 20 years ago.....and that's what I told my friend when he was contemplating on buying them. They rocked and sounded awesome.

Fast forward to about two weeks ago we did the side by side comparison and we both reached the same conclusion. Keep in mind the 30's had the upgrades except the Ciare woofers and the CF-4's were stock.

No contest, really. The 30's were refined, rich and smooth sounding. Quality sound. The bass was significantly tighter and punchier.

The CF-4's had a sound that was inferior in the direct comparison and sounded flat out "tired". Every aspect of the sound just didn't measure up to the upgraded KLF-30.

Obviously, the 30's are practically new speakers with all the upgraded/new components......and if the 30's were stock....we'd probably be laughing at them compared to the CF-4's.

So.....he's looking into upgrading the CF-4's but it seems the options for upgrading are limited compared to the 30's.

I'd take that bone stock CF-4 over any Heritage speaker in a heartbeat, though....[emoji14]

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[mimalmo]

What version CF4 were you comparing them to?

[SWL]

What version CF4 were you comparing them to?

I think they were version 1 because he said they had the Monster wiring. Does that sound correct?

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[mimalmo]

Both version 1&2 had the OFC Monster style cable. Version 2 has the shorter ports and an altered crossover.

[SWL]

Both version 1&2 had the OFC Monster style cable. Version 2 has the shorter ports and an altered crossover.

Ah, ok. He did say he was gonna try different ports but I don't know if his had the longer or shorter ones at the time.

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[teaman]

I don’t think there can really be a winner or loser here, both great speakers as far as anyone who has owned them will tell you.

I had JBL SVA-2100 which I would moderately compare to the CF 3 or 4 speakers. My one glaring difference between the design of the Epic and the Legend is tweeter placement. When I was seated listening to the MTM they sounded fantastic. When I was standing or walking around as many times I am the tweeter on the MTM sort of washed out. The Legend series puts the mid and tweeter horns much closer to ear level. To me that was a big reason to go KLF.

I own three pair of the 30’s and a pair of 20’s and whether it is HT or two channel, as long as your cabinets are solid, I have a hard time criticizing the sound.

On the other hand if you have a designated listening room, and you are snug in your favorite chair, I think either CF or KLF will bring a huge smile to your face. All of my speakers are in stock form and I’m kind of in the mindset of if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

[DEP14]

I"m fortunate in that I have a dedicated listening room so the MTM works out just fine.

 

I like these enough that I do plan on sending in the crossovers to have caps etc changed out.  Though, I suspect it will be more placebo than anything as these look pretty dam clean and good.  

 

But it's pretty inexpensive.  I'm fortunate, these are V1's  251st day of 1994 build.

 

My klf 30's are late builds, also fortunate in that the cabinets are rock solid.  

[Shiva]

Always nice to see something written about the Epic line. I think they are a great speaker. I was listening to a recording of the Cream reunion show on the AXS channel last night. Ginger Baker's drum solo slamming through them was, shall we say, Epic.

 

 

[Deang]

2 hours ago, DEP14 said:

 

I like these enough that I do plan on sending in the crossovers to have caps etc changed out.  Though, I suspect it will be more placebo than anything ...

 

Kind of like going from bias-ply tires to good radials. Everything about the feel is different, but it’s all in your head - because tires are just tires. 🙂

[wvu80]

2 hours ago, DEP14 said:

I like these enough that I do plan on sending in the crossovers to have caps etc changed out.  Though, I suspect it will be more placebo than anything as these look pretty dam clean and good.  

 

But it's pretty inexpensive.  I'm fortunate, these are V1's  251st day of 1994 build.

Please read this thread, Epic Owners Group.

 

It details the mods that can make your CF-4's sound better.  Having the caps changed out will not address the sound characteristics in the way they need help.

 

I modded my CF-4 v1 not to "improve" them but to deal with some specific things in the sound I didn't like.  I thought there was a harshness in the top end, and I thought they were not accurate, being maybe 1/3 octave too high.

 

The two easiest and most effective mods you can do don't cost that much, twenty bucks max.  Add some polyfil and damp the horn.  It's spelled out in the Epic Owners Group thread and the results are dramatic.

 

I did some other mods but that was more for fun and I can't say they made the CF-4's sound any better.  I also run a 15" sealed sub which effectively turns the CF-4's into a 3-way speaker system.  My modded CF-4's w/sub are more accurate and sound better than my La Scalas and Khorns.

[Deang]

22 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

...and I thought they were not accurate, being maybe 1/3 octave too high.

What does that even mean?

 

 

24 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Add some polyfil ...

Why?

[wvu80]

17 minutes ago, Deang said:

What does that even mean?  (my observation they sounded 1/3 octave too high)

 

Why? (add polyfil)

As I listened to the speakers I thought the sound was a bit nasal.  A piano note such as middle C (A=442) sounded higher than it should have.  A trumpet sounded slightly shrill instead of full with the expected overtones.

 

I added about a pound of polyfil (little more than a handful) to the bottom of each speaker at the bottom near the ports, being careful not to block the ports.  I also took out two of the loose sheets of foam (.75" each combined to make a single 1.5" sheet) from the lower section.  This brought the pitch down to where the sound was VERY accurate.  A grand piano SOUNDED like a grand piano in terms of timbre, IMO, and I am comparing to hearing a grand piano live!, not a recording of one.  Adding the 15" sealed sub provided the dynamics and lower octave punch few speakers could match.

 

My guess is this decreased the efficiency of the speaker.  Klipsch is concerned about 102 db efficiency speakers in their ad brochures, I'm not.  I care primarily that they are accurate. 

 

With the mods I did and adding the sealed sub the CF-4 system now has no flaws.  They are accurate everywhere in the listenable frequency range, dynamic and effortless at higher (read live!) volumes.  I don't have much to complain about. 

[rockhound]

I have owned both and just as others have said they are both great speakers. My nod goes the CF4 they dig deeper than the 30's and to me I preferred the sonic signature of them over the 30's. Roy put some magic into those CF4's that is for sure.

[opusk2k9]

On 7/12/2018 at 5:13 PM, STV_Keith said:

So, I figured I'd post this here on this thread...from my FB post in the Klipsch Fanatics group.

 

I finally got the living room to the point where I could put together some of the system and compare the CF-4 v3's to the KLF-30's. Each pair were connected to a Yamaha MX-800u amp, running off the speaker A output. They are 170w RMS / 270w peak, per channel, driven from a Yamaha RX-A2050.

 

Overall, I have to pick the CF-4's for 2-channel use, if you can only have one pair. The CF-4's have more low bass where the KLF's seemed to be a little tighter, but didn't go as low. The CF-4's also had more in the lower mid range and more at the very top from what I heard. The KLF-30's had more in the midrange, were more vocal, but not as bright on the very top.

 

The KLF-30's will make an excellent center channel speaker in my HT setup though, once I get to that in this house. I will say that having both pairs running at once sounds FANTASTIC. The two models complement each other very well.

Excellent setup.  I have the Yamaha MX-800 and MX-1000 amps and love them.

If you drive them off the same Yamaha MX-800 amp (A and B is there much of a volume difference output, I have heard the CF-4 are more power hungry.

Are the Yamaha MX-800 set to the same volume level or did you adjust them to match sound output?

 

The specs for the CF-4 are 34Hz-20kHz and the KLF-30 are 36Hz-20kHz.

Some people say they prefer the KLF-20 to the KLF-30s, the KLF-20 is listed as 34Hz-20kHz (the CF-3 is 35Hz-20kHz for comparison).

 

If you want a KLF-30 as a center, this guy did the work of modifying them for you:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/ele/6634273424.html

 

Enjoy them.

[Deang]

Dave,

 

You changed the tuning frequency of the port(s). This subjective improvement would be specific to your room/environment and your ears. 

 

Middle C is 261Hz. There is a good chance your subwoofer is running near or into this area. 

 

There is a mathematical relationship between the woofers, cabinet (displacement), ports and network low pass. It’s generally not a good idea to mess with any of these. 

 

Signed,

The Hypocrite:-)

[SWL]

 
The specs for the CF-4 are 34Hz-20kHz and the KLF-30 are 36Hz-20kHz.
Some people say they prefer the KLF-20 to the KLF-30s, the KLF-20 is listed as 34Hz-20kHz

When I had 20's and 30's in the same room at the same time, I thought the 20's had a sweeter sound with punchier bass. The 30's had a bigger, fuller sound.

After sealing, reinforcing the cabs and especially after installing the Ciare woofers the 30's bass was punchier kind of reminiscent of the 20's. The 20's on steroids that is.[emoji106]



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