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I'm a Believer! (another cable story)


kevinmi

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9 hours ago, wvu80 said:

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I went back and re-read your post.  I skimmed it too fast and didn't fully understand what you were saying.

+++

 

I know disagreements about cables are common with most of us audio people.  All I have is my anecdotal story from my memory of 20 years ago, certainly not good enough evidence to convict anyone in court.  B)

 

Current bunching? I hear something new every day.

JJK

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Yep, end of January and time for a Cable Thread.

 

One thing for sure, there is a lot of "skin effect" going on right now with the Mardi Gras beads. The bigger and shinier the beads, the greater the skin effect.

 

Skin effect WRT audio cables? I doubt that very much. I'll bring some to the parade and see what happens.:D

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56 minutes ago, Don Richard said:

Skin effect WRT audio cables? I doubt that very much. I'll bring some to the parade and see what happens.:D

I listen to most of my music on Youtube.

 

It will be a while until I get around to worrying about skin effect.  B)

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i've recently had great audible improvements in my 2 channel going from Monster RCA interconnects to using Blue Jeans ones...  which are also USA made, but cost nearly a 1/4 of those AP situations.

1' RCA from AP: $108.90

1' RCA from BJC: $30.00

 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

 

I use their balanced XLR interconnects in my 5 channel system as well.

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Pretty soon there won't be any need for cables.  Then what will people say?  When I spray air freshener in the room I get more bass?  I put a quieter fan on my modem and turned it 90 degrees to the left and now I hear stuff I never heard before.  :)

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6 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Pretty soon there won't be any need for cables.  Then what will people say?  When I spray air freshener in the room I get more bass?  I put a quieter fan on my modem and turned it 90 degrees to the left and now I hear stuff I never heard before.

I've often wondered if I humidify a room to higher/denser than normal if I would achieve better sonics... perhaps positive pressures would yield better results also.

 

Turbo/supercharge room modes :P

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I have proven to myself time and again that poor interconnects can definitely yield poor results.

 

But there is also the boutique business of what I call "spiked" cables.  Cables built to specifically change the sound rather than be a pass through wire.  And you can pay mighty bucks as we all know.

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I'll never know what I'm missing.

 

I'm actually using lamp cord in the office to power my Forte II at the moment.  Just happen to be out of decent speaker wire.  It sounds great, and I doubt I will hear a difference when I replace it with better speaker wire.

 

Old friend of mine took part in a blind listening test with a group of audiophiles, part of this test included high end speaker wire vs ramex solid copper wire. *edit - the short of it was, trained listeners during this informal blind test session in a home could not differentiate what speaker wire was in use.

 

I think there is some merit to using well designed interconnect cables (and speaker wire) with good materials, but I'll never buy "better" than what I consider affordable offerings from monoprice and blue jeans type places

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11 minutes ago, Schu said:

I've often wondered if I humidify a room to higher/denser than normal if I would achieve better sonics... perhaps negative pressures would yield better results also.

 

If the air is more dense/higher pressure like at sea level, it seems to me sound reproduction would be somewhat effected vs. high altitude thinner air.  Would it be audible to the human ear?  I dunno.  That's kind of hard to A/B test :D

 

Maybe one of those altitude chambers that athletes train in...

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34 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

It’s so disappointing that we as audiophiles are, as a group, seemingly so disinterested in putting audibility claims to any sort of blinded validity test.

I don't see any evidence that we are "disinterested." 

 

Speaking for myself, I look at everything, from scientific testing, to anecdotal stories, and to any A/B/X testing.  Everything I read and experience is a piece of the puzzle that I take into consideration, but nothing in and of itself is compelling evidence to me.

 

The A/B/X testing has been shown to have several specific technical flaws, both subjectively and objectively.  That is why test results from that sort of polling have generally been met with skepticism.  Maybe that is the "disinterest" you are describing.

+++

 

FYI I was trained in college to examine research with a critical eye.  My job is doing bio-medical research at Ohio State.

 

Among the problems with an A/B/X test of audio equipment of any type is inter-rater reliability, predictability of results, generalization, face validity, content validity and test/retest reliability.  Then you have to judge the results within a certain confidence level (usually at the .95% or .90% level) to see if they are statistically significant.  You would need at least 700 test subjects (1100 would be better) who have been selected scientifically.  And we haven't even begun to address variables.

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but if you want valid results, from a procedural point of view, it's a hot mess. 

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Crikey...a cable discussion without violence.  Never thought I'd see it!  Honestly, I believe part of it is that this is a Klipsch Forum.  If there is a difference, you'd hear it on Klipsch.  Few do, and when they do it's usually one of the above reasons.  Sometimes we forget that audio may sound somewhat different without actually being better or worse, but many audiophiles think what they view as "better" means what they heard before was "worse."  Mostly just "different," IMHO.

 

Dave

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 Any flaws in a/B/X testing pale in comparison to the impact of expectation bias when one takes the approach of listening to one set of cables, taking 5-10 minutes to replace with the new set and then listening for “differences”.  All the while completely aware of which cables you are hearing.

 

If people would simply do what I suggested earlier in this thread I think many minds would be changed. To repeat,  place your speakers side by side, then have someone connect brand A cable to one channel brand B to the other channel ( without telling you which is which of course ) then have  that person switch between the two speakers using the balance control as you play a MONO recording. I suspect The differences will disappear 

 

 Just because a perfectly designed and executed blinded test is impractical  shouldn’t deter people from trying less perfect validity test

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I've been using 14 guage speaker wire from Home Depot for the last 10 years or so. Before that I was using some fancy shmancy 12 guage Monster wire that I could tell no difference between the two.

About six months ago an audio buddy of mine gave me some beefed up speaker wire to try out. I was reluctant because of everything I've read over the years about speaker wire so when I brought it home it got tossed in the corner and I forgot all about it until I came across it about three weeks ago.

I grabbed them, tossed them in my car and then I thought man I better at least try them before I give them back.

I hooked them up and it didn't take long to hear the difference. It is entirely in the highs. Cymbals are more defined and transparent.....smooth sounding. Very noticeable and going back to my original wires it was confirmed. They are called StraightWire.

I didn't believe in this stuff based on what I've read. It may just be a different sound than the other wires but it sure does sound better so I'm sticking with them.

I took it one step further and compared the stock metal bi-wire jumpers to some 10 guage Mogami jumpers and there was a fuller richer sound with the Mogami's as well. Not as significant as the speaker wires but in my opinion worth the $50 upgrade.

I have a sweet spot established and know the sound of my system like the back of my hand so I'm not dreaming this. However, being outside of the sweet spot I think the jumpers are less noticable but the speaker wires are still very much an influence.

I'm running out of things to upgrade in my speakers. I wonder if they make a stain or a veneer that will make em sound better, too? [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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I've read others comment on the jumpers.  Probably real because of an inferior jumper.

 

Separate comment:

 

I have changed sound simply by loosening and re-tightening speaker wires and disconnecting / reconnecting  / moving interconnects to refresh the connection.  Connections degrade sometimes.

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