Vasubandu's serious idea

[vasubandu]

I have an idea and it genuinely seems to make sense to me.  Tomorrow I am buying a pair of Rf-5 from @jjptkd but they have RC-7 tweeters that were turned for vertical orientation. That will essentially make them vertical RC-7 (2 8-inch woofers and a tweeter). This is where it gets interesting, @jjptkd is also including the tcw RC-7, I assume with the RF-5 tweeters.  My normal RC-7, which I also obtained from him, is my favorite speaker.  So I will effectively have the same speaker for LCR, which I have read many times is a good idea.

 

I guess I like my RS-7, but as a practical matter they practically are not there. Not the much presence to an 8-inch woofer shooting straight out  and tweeters to the sides. SO what if I replace them as surrounds with my new RC-7.  Would not be entirely  identical, but I also have read many times that it not very important for surrounds.  I have some wonderful  stands that I can put them on. In this way, at least for 5.1 and 5.2,  my speakers would effectively all be the same.  I really want to hear what that sounds like.

 

In a perfect world, @jjptkd would devote his prodigious speaker alteration skills to turn the two RC-7 into bipolar speakers.  Should not take him more than a few minutes. I cannot imagine how that would begin to be possible, and I am not crazy enough to try it.

 

So does this make sense on some level, and has anyone else made a 5.1 or 5.2 system with identical speakers?

 

 

[jjptkd]

I ran all 5 speakers you're talking about in my room at the same time and it sounded great, the rears with the RF-5 parts actually sound really good and very close to the front three. The RF-5' and RC-7 are a timbre matched from the factory so shouldn't have any issues that way. 

 

I didn't keep it together long, having that large of rear surrounds in the bedroom kind of pissed off the wife as they were set on our nightstands next to the bed..  it seemed like a good idea at the time. 

 

 

[Scrappydue]

So I’m confused. Do the rf-5 towers you are getting have the horn AND Hf driver from the rc-7 in them? Were any crossover components changed to make this happen? 

[vasubandu]

The horns remain. I understand they are the same. The tweeters were removed from rc7 and reoriented for vertical speaker and the rc7 crossovers for the tweeter were switched too. Both speakers have 2 8 inch woofers and a tweeter. So the rf5 should be identical to the rc7 except that the rc7 tweeter is in the middle and the rf5 tweeter is at the top. I  now have 2 rc7 with rf5 tweeters a d crossovers as surrounds. On big happy 8 inch woofers family. 

 

My overall sense of it is one big undifferentiated field of sound. Nothing is stronger or weaker 

[wvu80]

@vasubanduI'm glad you could pick up a nice set of speakers from @jjptkd.  He will have that combo pretty dialed in and be able to advise you for an easy integrated setup.  Be sure to post your impressions and maybe a picture when you get everything in place.

 

I saw in your signature you have a Marantz 6011 on the way.  I think that is a super versatile AVR.  You will be able to have a nice 2.0, 5.1, 7.1 or 4 channel Atmos setup depending on your mood and you won't have to worry about finding new electronics.

 

Don't forget to update your signature to reflect the new speakers. 

[jjptkd]

8 hours ago, Scrappydue said:

So I’m confused. Do the rf-5 towers you are getting have the horn AND Hf driver from the rc-7 in them? Were any crossover components changed to make this happen? 

Yes, I swapped horn / drivers and complete crossovers in the RF-5's and pair of RC-7's, just seemed to make sense to have the higher quality drivers in the main speakers for 2 channel and to match the center speaker. To make it work the crossovers had to follow the drivers and set the 2.5 way crossovers so that the low end drivers are on the bottom in both cabinets and the full range woofer (to horn crossover point) are in the middle. The RF-5's in stock form sound great to my ears already but with these changes it really took them up a notch. The RC-7's with RF-5 parts sound extremely good as well.

 

 

[jjptkd]

7 hours ago, wvu80 said:

@vasubanduI'm glad you could pick up a nice set of speakers from @jjptkd.  He will have that combo pretty dialed in and be able to advise you for an easy integrated setup.

He basically bought my old surround set up I had in my bedroom system. All 5 speakers are a perfect match, the front 3 even more so now with the changes I made. 10- 8" woofers with some power behind them should sound pretty good in his room, it was ridiculously overkill for my 13x14 bedroom to the point I stopped using a subwoofer.  His room is a lot larger than mine but with the right crossover points and sub(s) to back them up I really think those speakers are up to task. 

[vasubandu]

3 hours ago, jjptkd said:

10- 8" woofers with some power behind them should sound pretty good in his room, it was ridiculously overkill for my 13x14 bedroom to the point I stopped using a subwoofer

The effect in my room is to produce what I would call effortless sound. It fills the room comfortably but does not call attention to itself. Some systems seem overpowered or overwhelming to me. I guess I would say that this gives great sound that you hear but don't notice.

[wvu80]

15 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

The effect in my room is to produce what I would call effortless sound.

That is a really good description of what I think of with Klipsch speakers, the large Klipsch speakers.  The volume is turned up but it doesn't sound strained and loud, it sounds more natural and full.

 

What AVR are you driving these with?

[dtel]

Do have one question, do the different drivers of those models work in the different size cabinets ? I know they will play but did that change what the cabinet/driver was tuned to with the other driver/cabinet ? Just wondering, I was thinking cabinet size was to match the performance of the driver, or are the needs the same just better quality ?

[vasubandu]

46 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

What AVR are you driving these with?

 

I have an Integra DTR-50.6 that I bought for $200 and an Outlaw 7700 amp. I am really struggling to learn the Integra, but I will get there.

[vasubandu]

21 minutes ago, dtel said:

Do have one question, do the different drivers of those models work in the different size cabinets ?

 

I tried listening to just one speaker and going back and forth between the RC-7 and the modified RF-5.  I could not hear a difference, so for my purposes, yes.

[wvu80]

7 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

 

I have an Integra DTR-50.6 that I bought for $200 and an Outlaw 7700 amp. I am really struggling to learn the Integra, but I will get there.

In 2014 I bought my first modern AVR in 20 years the Onkyo TX-NR717.  Onk and Integra come out of different doors of the same factory.

 

Without exaggeration it took me months to learn and truly understand all the features and listening modes of the Onk.  It was overwhelming especially at first.  Once I came to understand the features I was able to really dial-in and fine tune the sound. 

 

Are you going to put your Marantz 6011 into this system?  If you do I think it will be much easier to integrate because of your experience with the Integra.

[vasubandu]

@wvu80 I was about to pull the trigger on the 6011 when the Integra popped up. It does everything that I needed the 6011 to do, so I never got the 6011.  And for $200 how could I resist. Plus the guy threw in his entire audio setup. I sold the B&W subwoofer for $150 and have the B&W DM601 on eBay with bidding at  $112.50 and 43 watchers with 19 hours to go.  Plus I still have the Linn Tukan speakers to sell once I get the cloths for them and the 4 heavy duty anodized stands.  So all in all it just does not seem to make sense to jump fo rthe Marantz unless the instructions are easier to understand.

[wvu80]

2 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

So all in all it just does not seem to make sense to jump for the Marantz unless the instructions are easier to understand.

I don't know the Integra all that well, but for $200 I don't see how you could do any better.  I wouldn't change to the 6011 right now unless there is a specific feature you want, such as 4 channel Atmos.

 

Be sure to update your signature so I won't be so confused next time.  I read everything. 

[-js-]

25 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

In 2014 I bought my first modern AVR in 20 years the Onkyo TX-NR717.  Onk and Integra come out of different doors of the same factory.

 

Without exaggeration it took me months to learn and truly understand all the features and listening modes of the Onk.  It was overwhelming especially at first.  Once I came to understand the features I was able to really dial-in and fine tune the sound. 

 

...  If you do I think it will be much easier to integrate because of your experience with the Integra.

 

let me second that.  I love my Integra DTR 60.5 but MAN!  it sure does seem complicated!  I think I'm like you Dave - I have it set how it like it, and am honestly kinda tired of fussing with it.  sounds pretty good so I leave it alone for a while... until something bugs me so bad I simply must change it, lol.  and A4L did include the Jose I mean Manuel but IMHO, it's not the most intuitive I've ever seen.  so me, it requires real effort to wade into it.

[Emile]

21 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

I was about to pull the trigger on the 6011

@vasubandu ... same here, but just could not live with the "minimal" display on the Marantz. So; got an Onkyo TX-RZ810 ( and new from Crutchfield at the same price as a refurb from A4less  ). Just arrived  Will be hooking up wires for the rest of the day

Cheers, Emile

[wvu80]

15 minutes ago, Emile said:

same here, but just could not live with the "minimal" display on the Marantz.

If you mean the built-in front panel display, yeah it might be useful in case you're not hooked up to a display, but it's so small I turned mine completely off.  The way I have it setup now yy 6011 has a small red light in the lower left hand corner in standby, and when running it is completely unlit.

 

The OSD is pretty good though but not great but the Marantz iphone app is the best I've seen.

 

I've never seen an OSD that wasn't clunky or cumbersome to use.

[dtel]

1 hour ago, vasubandu said:

 

I tried listening to just one speaker and going back and forth between the RC-7 and the modified RF-5.  I could not hear a difference, so for my purposes, yes.

If you couldn't hear the difference, good enough.

It's part of why I don't customize or design speakers, I don't know how to make a cabinet dimension match a driver. I found out from building my first sub, each driver has it's own parameters and the cabinet tunes to match. It's why I let those who know figure out the design and follow them.

[dtel]

20 minutes ago, Emile said:

just could not live with the "minimal" display on the Marantz.

Your right and that's with every brand I have seen, OSD is so much easier to see what's going on. The Pioneer Elite I'm using now would be almost impossible to do from what's shown on the front screen, pretty useless to see all options or even just maneuver around. 

 

10 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Marantz iphone app is the best I've seen.

 

I love this idea, I hope it becomes standard on all receivers. I talked with you about this when I bought my receiver used and it did not have a remote, I never knew they started that. The older Pioneer was not capable, had to get a replacement remote from china for $25, it's worth every penny just for volume and mute.