Subwoofer suggestion.

[KA1J]

Hi,

 

I have a McIntosh C2500 Pre and MC275 amp. I use this to drive a stacked pair of Chorus on the bottom and Forte II on the top, one pair to the left and one on the right. Both Chorus & Forte have updated Crites mids-tweeters & crossovers. The listening environment is roughly 20' W x 15'D  though there is another 15' open behind the couch.

 

I just bought a 65" LG TV to go between the speakers and was underwhelmed at the LG's internal speakers (Love the video). With the McIntosh I'm using aftermarket NOS tubes in both the pre and amp so don't want to run those when watching the mundane. For that I picked up a mid level LG soundbar with 8" subwoofer and it is just fine for listening to the news and simple TV but listening to a HD Video or Movie it is lacking. When I warm the tubes and use the McIntosh/Klipsch for the audio the sound is incredible but for the theater sound it needs a subwoofer. 

 

I'd like to stay with the Klipsch line but don't know which current subwoofer would best match these four vintage speakers I've looked at the R-110SW, R-112SW & the R-115SW. I don't want to have overkill nor do I want to get something too weak. As I've never owned a subwoofer I'm unsure of what's my wisest bang for the buck.

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks.

[RoboKlipsch]

a smaller sub will likely fit the bill and be especially cheap from frys on one of their crazy specials.

the only thing you want to know for sure is what the frequency range of the soundbar is....how low it plays

 

if it shows a -3db stat that will tell you how high the sub needs to play comfortably.

if it doesnt that likely means at best it plays down to that fequency at -10db and needs an even higher crossover

 

klipsch doesnt offer much high crossovers...say 150 or higher because their mains always play down lower

if your crossover poimt needs to be say 200hz i highly recommend an svs pb1000 or even an sb1000....or their sb12nsd which has had great sale pricing for a while.  they can all play up to i think 300hz w a flat response but also get down to 20hz for the pb and 25 for the sealed models.  for a soundbar thats plenty.

 

if you want one you could integrate into the main system also, then a pb2000 or pc2000 becomes a great option as they play down under 20hz and could enhance your current setup and the soundbar.

[KA1J]

Hi & thanks for the reply!

 

I might not have said things clearly, I bought the soundbar solely for the TV for watching news/Jeoprady/Oak Island kinds of things; the soundbar does come with a subwoofer but not a great one. The stereo I have would be fantastic  to use with the TV all the time if it were not for it using tubes, and the tubes I have in it are expensive ones from the 60's, so when I use the stereo it has been to listen to lossless music formats or vinyl, never streaming compressed music.

 

Now that I have a 65" OLED TV, I'll use the McIntosh with it when watching a HD/DVD movie or live HD music and with that, I'd like a subwoofer to ideally match with my Klipsch Chorus & Forte' pairs. This means I won't be using the Klipsch or whichever high quality sub when using the soundbar, I'll just use the stock sub that came with it and for music & watching movies/HD videos, the tube equipment will be running.

 

 

[wuzzzer]

If you want to go with Klipsch get the R115 and contact Cory @MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[RoboKlipsch]

47 minutes ago, KA1J said:

Hi & thanks for the reply!

 

I might not have said things clearly, I bought the soundbar solely for the TV for watching news/Jeoprady/Oak Island kinds of things; the soundbar does come with a subwoofer but not a great one. The stereo I have would be fantastic  to use with the TV all the time if it were not for it using tubes, and the tubes I have in it are expensive ones from the 60's, so when I use the stereo it has been to listen to lossless music formats or vinyl, never streaming compressed music.

 

Now that I have a 65" OLED TV, I'll use the McIntosh with it when watching a HD/DVD movie or live HD music and with that, I'd like a subwoofer to ideally match with my Klipsch Chorus & Forte' pairs. This means I won't be using the Klipsch or whichever high quality sub when using the soundbar, I'll just use the stock sub that came with it and for music & watching movies/HD videos, the tube equipment will be running.

 

 

got it.  the biggest model youcan fit, r115sw being the biggest is best, not because of some hey gets nuts attitude but simply being the best performer.  with your setup you need great performance under 40hz and from klipsch that is r115sw.  you dont want a model that doesnt get down to 20hz at a minimum....theater has a lot of content down to around 16 or 17.  

 

many other options from other mfg but the 115 is excellent and has had some great pricing too

[KA1J]

Thanks again. I'd like to stay with Klipsch as my speakers are Klipsch and they are wonderful. With a Sub, I'm still open to other options, I see SVS getting good press but have nowhere around to hear them in a reasonable setting and they offer so many models. The best I can hope for is good advice and if I don't inherently like something I can always return it. 

 

Seeing as I'm using tube equipment and large speakers, I'm expecting that may have some difference in what kind of sub would be my best option.

 

O'course one larger one or two smaller ones is also an issue. So much I don't know and nowhere to get the experience from personally.

[John Chi-town]

6 minutes ago, KA1J said:

Thanks again. I'd like to stay with Klipsch as my speakers are Klipsch and they are wonderful. With a Sub, I'm still open to other options, I see SVS getting good press but have nowhere around to hear them in a reasonable setting and they offer so many models. The best I can hope for is good advice and if I don't inherently like something I can always return it. 

 

Seeing as I'm using tube equipment and large speakers, I'm expecting that may have some difference in what kind of sub would be my best option.

 

O'course one larger one or two smaller ones is also an issue. So much I don't know and nowhere to get the experience from personally.

 

SVS has a tool on their website where you input brand and speaker model and SVS provides recommendations.  As you mentioned, no questions asked return policy within 60 days I believe. That is plenty of time to demo with your equipment and environment.

 

Best regards,

John

[Davis]

Give SVS a phone call.

A real person will answer (it was the owner when I called) and give you honest advice.

[mustang guy]

You stacked Forte II's on top of Choruses and are using an MC275 to power 4 speakers? That is very interesting. Do you have a picture? Are they laying on their sides to reduce comb filtering, and also reducing the horizontal polar to a sweet spot listening position?  

 

Sorry for all the questions. PS, I would buy 2 identical subs to smooth out the room response (you don't want too many loud spots or dead spots, and multiple subs smooth out these room modes). If you have the budget, then the best subs Klipsch makes are the P312W's.  The R115SW's are a lot cheaper but have excellent reviews from our very discerning Klipsch subwoofer folks.

[KA1J]

5 hours ago, mustang guy said:

You stacked Forte II's on top of Choruses and are using an MC275 to power 4 speakers? That is very interesting. Do you have a picture? Are they laying on their sides to reduce comb filtering, and also reducing the horizontal polar to a sweet spot listening position?  

 

Sorry for all the questions. PS, I would buy 2 identical subs to smooth out the room response (you don't want too many loud spots or dead spots, and multiple subs smooth out these room modes). If you have the budget, then the best subs Klipsch makes are the P312W's.  The R115SW's are a lot cheaper but have excellent reviews from our very discerning Klipsch subwoofer folks.

Yes, I've had it like this for a couple of years. The MC275 allows you to select the ohmage of the speakers you're using, you can have any number attached, you just have to plan for the ohmage (in my case, two in parallel) and you're good to go. On their sides? No, that would require more space than I have available. I might could fit them sideways but it isn't a requirement to me to have the best possible configuration; when you get to my age, that's something for younger ears and a degree of perfection I've never had. As this is, when I'm jamming to music, the sound is at my ear level instead of coming from below, that means a lot to me (Been a musician for 62 years now).

 

Multiple subs sounds interesting, I might go there but not right away, I'll have to see if one satisfies me, if not, I'll get another. Not that I'm wealthy but at this point in life, I can do things I couldn't do before.

 

Here's a photo, ignore the clutter on the right, I'm adjusting what is in the rooms, it'll be cleared out in a couple of days.

[Peter P.]

I can't offer a suggestion of a Klipsch subwoofer because I don't have any experience with them.

 

But after reading RoboKlipsch's comment about "biggest model you can fit", I was reminded of a tech article on the SVS web site that says a bigger sub is not necessarily better for an application. The web site has a lot of excellent information about choosing a subwoofer so I recommend you spend some time there.

 

Since your Klipsch setup alone is plenty for your music, you don't need a sub for tunes. Therefore, I'd suggest a ported sub, which will play lower than a sealed sub and you won't be looking for that tight, sealed cabinet bass. Movie sound effects usually involve lower frequencies than music. Most of Klipsch's subwoofers are ported, so you're sure to find something to fill you desires.

[RoboKlipsch]

for ht a big ported sub is necessary, preferably 2 imo

for music no sub needed but ht these days goes below 20hz which is the OPs original intent

 

svs pays free shipping and free returns...so u can try one out no charge if u dont like it

they even have an upgrade program in case u want a larger model

they have a solid 5yr warranty and design all their subs with a very flat response

 

the klipsch 115sw is the only consumer model i would recommend...its excellent and well priced

svs every model imo is designed for ht especially the 2000series and up

[jason str]

29 minutes ago, RoboKlipsch said:

for ht a big ported sub is necessary, preferably 2 imo

for music no sub needed but ht these days goes below 20hz which is the OPs original intent

 

svs pays free shipping and free returns...so u can try one out no charge if u dont like it

they even have an upgrade program in case u want a larger model

they have a solid 5yr warranty and design all their subs with a very flat response

 

the klipsch 115sw is the only consumer model i would recommend...its excellent and well priced

svs every model imo is designed for ht especially the 2000series and up

 

Flat frequency response is useless unless you are using them in a airplane hangar or a large theater setting, the room itself and placement dictates frequency response. More importantly distortion, build quality and SPL is what you should be looking at and those measurements are not listed as far as i have seen.

 

Warranty and return is great but nothing i have heard from them is special in any way but admit being spoiled with horn loaded models.

[wvu80]

8 hours ago, KA1J said:

O'course one larger one or two smaller ones is also an issue. So much I don't know and nowhere to get the experience from personally.

Of course!  That is always the question.

 

If it is a budget question, for the same money I prefer one good sub over two lessor subs.

 

The current thinking is a pair of matched subs is "standard" and bigger is better.  The reasoning is that two subs will provide a more even sound throughout the room, eliminating nulls and peaks.  You only gain 3 db by running the second sub, so SPL is not the reason for having two.

 

I run a single 15" in the living room in either 3.1 or 5.1 and I am extremely happy with it.  I'm not worried about peaks or nulls and where there are some, I just make sure that's where my wife sits.

[RoboKlipsch]

1 hour ago, jason str said:

 

Flat frequency response is useless unless you are using them in a airplane hangar or a large theater setting, the room itself and placement dictates frequency response. More importantly distortion, build quality and SPL is what you should be looking at and those measurements are not listed as far as i have seen.

 

Warranty and return is great but nothing i have heard from them is special in any way but admit being spoiled with horn loaded models.

flat frequency response is not useless and as you know is an issue with many horn designs especially larger horns playing up above 80hz.  the size of a horn box is quite simply huge and although its cool to get unlimited spl above 30hz most people looking for a full ht experience want their subs to play down below 20hz more than they want 120db at 30 and up.   ive heard many horn subs, i know they are spectacular but you at some point have to recognize the fact that most horns are not ideal for ht until they are huge in size.  

 

A danley dts at 25cft is awesome but not what most people want, let alone say 2 that they dont necessarily want placed in corners 

 

audioholics has cea measurements of all the svs subs.  a couple of used pb2000s or pc2000s offer a lot more placement options and plenty of low thd spl until they reach their limits.  looking at max output and thd ignores performance just below that level

[jason str]

10 minutes ago, RoboKlipsch said:

flat frequency response is not useless and as you know is an issue with many horn designs especially larger horns playing up above 80hz.  the size of a horn box is quite simply huge and although its cool to get unlimited spl above 30hz most people looking for a full ht experience want their subs to play down below 20hz more than they want 120db at 30 and up.   ive heard many horn subs, i know they are spectacular but you at some point have to recognize the fact that most horns are not ideal for ht until they are huge in size.  

 

A danley dts at 25cft is awesome but not what most people want, let alone say 2 that they dont necessarily want placed in corners 

 

audioholics has cea measurements of all the svs subs.  a couple of used pb2000s or pc2000s offer a lot more placement options and plenty of low thd spl until they reach their limits.  looking at max output and thd ignores performance just below that level

 

Many tapped horns have midbass issues, i agree. Just avoid the bad ones.

 

Its not the unlimited SPL most are looking for its lower distortion and most listening levels in fact immeasurable, high SPL is just a bonus. Many horns easily play below 20 Hz including the THT.

 

If you enjoy SVS subs by all means feel free to buy them but myself and many others here have moved on to better things, once you spend time with better options the shortcomings  of DR types become easy to pick up.

 

I stand by my statements previously made, room and placement dictates response.

[RoboKlipsch]

there are no svs subs in my signature or my setups but it doesnt mean they arent great

few people care to diy and fewer want 10cft+ boxes in their room

 

what u and i want doesnt matter...its necessary to focus on what the op wants which is a ht sub 

thats why i dont reco a diy option when he initially states hed like a klipsch, esp in the klipsch forum

 

no doubt room and placement are critical but that goes right to the point that a sub with flat response within a range can likely be flat in most rooms and wont require corner loading to reach down low.  the r115sw will hit 18 at -3db minimum anywhere in his room, and of course placing it right will be critical to get the most out of it

 

[dtel]

1 hour ago, RoboKlipsch said:

A danley dts at 25cft is awesome but not what most people want, let alone say 2 that they dont necessarily want placed in corners 

Size is not a problem for me, even 2 of these but to me it's a similar sound as the spud, volume and going low is not really a problem for these, what is a problem is good quality bass. I though it was fine but ended up thinking it's OK for movies but I didn't care for it for music. They are somewhat cheap to build.

 

Just another opinion after using this design.

[KA1J]

After listening to the replies and looking at reviews (thank you for your replies), I decided to settle on one of the new SVS SB-4000. It had quite a few and varied options to adjust its characteristics to the existing sound system, even one that works with Android. My McIntosh has 75W per channel and that is plenty and as an acoustic musician I am more into linear sound than hearing a pop at any certain frequency, be that ultra low or otherwise. The ported version would be wonderful, I'm sure, but from my past experience with ported speakers, they can hang and add an artificial character to lower notes. Having the sub be crisp and efficient at lowest frequencies to mate with my existing speakers will fit better with my library which has no electronic music other than amplified instruments (most are acoustic, sans amplifiers).

 

I'm sure I'd be happy with any of the Subwoofers, including the R115SW, it was the ability to alter the characteristics wirelessly, on the fly that made the difference.

 

Cheers!

[RoboKlipsch]

25 minutes ago, KA1J said:

After listening to the replies and looking at reviews (thank you for your replies), I decided to settle on one of the new SVS SB-4000. It had quite a few and varied options to adjust its characteristics to the existing sound system, even one that works with Android. My McIntosh has 75W per channel and that is plenty and as an acoustic musician I am more into linear sound than hearing a pop at any certain frequency, be that ultra low or otherwise. The ported version would be wonderful, I'm sure, but from my past experience with ported speakers, they can hang and add an artificial character to lower notes. Having the sub be crisp and efficient at lowest frequencies to mate with my existing speakers will fit better with my library which has no electronic music other than amplified instruments (most are acoustic, sans amplifiers).

 

I'm sure I'd be happy with any of the Subwoofers, including the R115SW, it was the ability to alter the characteristics wirelessly, on the fly that made the difference.

 

Cheers!

Congrats on making a great choice.  Let us know how u like it please.