vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Bear with me here, as I have never build a speaker of any kind, and although I have been studying, I pretty much know nothing about subwoofers. I have picked up snippets, and when I take on a project, it does not have to be successful. I just don't want to try something that has been tried and failed or that violates some basic rule unless I want to test the rule. The basic idea is a cylinder subwoofer that is to start with a round concrete form 20 inches in diameter and six feet long. This would be turned into a subwoofer with 18 inch drivers. Specifically, it would have 6 or 8 drivers, space permitting. The drivers would face out from the center in a push-pull system so that 3 or 4 drivers would push and pull in a given direction at the same time. The question would be whether the incremental increase in volume from adding a second driver would continue to increase as more were added or not, and if it did increase, whether that would be arithmetic or logarithmic. Really good 18 inch drivers seem to cost $600 or more, probably a lot more, so this would not be a cheap project. But so what. Am I just dead wrong and has someone tried this? I spent hours looking and cannot find anything close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I have no idea if it would work or not, but I think the cardboard form would deteriorate over time from the subs. A plastic drain pipe might be a better choice of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Check this out. laminated fiberboard, can get any size or thickness I want. http://www.shapesunlimited.com/products/tubes And then there are wood veneer tubes https://lenderink.com/wood-tubes/ And now that I think about it a log would be perfect. Usually logs are hollowed out by cutting them in half lengthwise and then easily removing the center. The the halves are joined to make the hollow log This would be perfect with my love for exotic woods. The bark would be removed to an attractive wood layer. The outside could be made any thickness I wanted. I just contacted my favorite supplier in Portland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, vasubandu said: I have never build a speaker of any kind, and although I have been studying, I pretty much know nothing about subwoofers. Big Mistake to design and build your own sub-woofer from scratch when you don't know what you are doing. If you wanted to learn music would you start by writing a symphony with 21 instruments, or would you first sing someone else's song? You're a lawyer, was your first case after law school argued in front of the Supreme Court? If you want to fulfill your love for exotic woods, LEARN TO VENEER. There are some fantastic real wood veneers out there. Others can advise you, it's beyond my experience base. As far as building your subs, I suggest you list your audio goals, such as music or theater, the lowest frequency you want, the size room, budget and then get advice from people here or on avsforum.com DIY Speakers and Subs. Then go to PE and pick out a kit, or maybe even a pair. They will sound better than anything you can do on your own because they are proven designs. You can put them together and paint them in a weekend, then start enjoying them. You will have a top notch product and you will have the pride of having made the sub yourself. The precision CNC cut enclosures will provide an excellent square base from which you can veneer successfully. Set yourself up for success. If you have $1250 (plus paint, glue and cables) to spend the sweet spot is a couple of 18" subs powered by an Inuke 6000 w/dsp. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7099 https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu6000dsp-inuke-6000w-lightweight-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6710 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, wvu80 said: Big Mistake to design and build your own sub-woofer from scratch when you don't know what you are doing I would never do it without learning everything I needed to know beforehand. There is a lot of science and I would be applying it differently thank others. I can learn it easily enough. Many have said that subwoofers are easy to build. In my law practice I take cases about new things all the time. In fact that is why I love it. So in one case I have to learn securities law and in another state constitutional law. I have had to learn about jet parts and concrete structural work. So subwoofers don't scare me. And if I wanted to sing, I would sing my songs. The idea of buying a kit would never occur to me. The idea here is that as big as they are, subwoofers are limited in size by practical considerations. The external dimensions of the svs pb16 contain 16,763 cubic inches. The interior dimensions of my concept have 37,698 cubic inches, which is the equivalent of a cube 33 inches on a side. Just seems like a fun exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeK Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Have you googled sonosub? They seem pretty simple. I'm on the fence about making one George 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, vasubandu said: I would never do it without learning everything I needed to know beforehand. I'd be happy to teach you everything you need to know about building a sub but it will be a couple of weeks before my time frees up. Even though I was trained as a therapist I'll be learning about "law" so I can represent the FBI in FISA court next week. I was always interested in police stuff. Is that how laywering works? ('jess messing with you my friend, but you're not picking up what I'm laying down. It's not an insult to suggest you learn to crawl before you walk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 These threads you continually start OP.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Try this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 If you are going to build something 6 feet tall build the THTLP from Bill Fitzmaurice with the Dayton RSS390 15", its going to the best bang for the buck sub you can build. The tube idea is nice but it don't differ in any way besides being round instead of cubed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, wvu80 said: It's not an insult to suggest you learn to crawl before you walk @wvu80 You have helped me so much that I would never consider anything you say to be an insult. It would be really stupid to seek your advice and then get mad when you gave it to me. And given that you know a hell of a lot more than I do about this, it would be self-defeating to disregard your thoughts. I have struggled all my life with this "crawl before you walk thing." Just ask my wife. I don't want to crawl, I want to run. And I really don't even want to run, I want to fly. So try to bypass the crawling part with learning and thinking. That tends to work in the law because the law is all thinking and no doing. In the end, lawyering is very simple. It is getting one person or twelve people to what you want them to and to think they thought of it themselves. It is appearing to be objective while really being an advocate for one side. It can be a lot of fun. I fave never dealt with the FISA court and rarely with the FBI, but if you want to discuss the process offline I would be happy to do so. The thing is I could go buy a pair of Seatons or Rhymthiks or whatever and had a great sub. So my issue not so much getting a pair of good subwoofers as figuring out whether this idea has any legs. If someone else has tried and it does not work, then great, but if not, then it is terra nova, and that I cannot resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Schu said: These threads you continually start OP. Well, I know, but you know the information that I get is invaluable to me. And it may not make sense to anyone else, but it makes perfect sense to me. If I am irritating people, I will stop. But play along with me for a second. If, as a general rule bigger subwoofers are or can be better than smaller ones, then wouldn't we generally make them as large as possible? Then the truck backs up to deliver it and the WAF sets in. "I am not having that thing in my house." Now maybe smaller subs are just as good and it is all driver size, I don't know. But I do know that a 33 inch cube has no place in my house. A cylinder sub looks smaller than it is, which already helps. And I don't think that 30 inches or 6 feet tall really makes a difference. A 6 foot tower is not going to be perceived like a giant cube. So if it worked, it might really be significant. And the fact that people are shaking their heads sort of shows that no one ha tried it. So all I can say is that I ask these questions in earnest. But seriously I do not want to annoy anyone or waste their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 @Ceptorman I have looked into that concept quite a bit. In one permutation, it leads to the “Was 3000”, made by Wyle Laboratories, which fits on a truck and has been called the "mother of all speakers." It can produce a sound of 165 dB. http://www.psaudio.com/article/the-mother-of-all-speakers-moas/ The military plays with it. 185-200 dB is usually the standard for death. As far as I can tell, it just makes noise and would not work as a subwoofer. This actually was the entrance to my rabbit hole. Bose has done some interesting things, but not what I am after. Admit it, this ha you thinking that it would fit somewhere in your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Here you go, step by step instructions: https://spinditty.com/instruments-gear/How-to-make-build-your-own-DIY-sonosub-style-cylinder-subwoofer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 34 minutes ago, vasubandu said: In the end, lawyering is very simple. It is getting one person or twelve people to what you want them to and to think they thought of it themselves. It is appearing to be objective while really being an advocate for one side. It can be a lot of fun. I have never dealt with the FISA court and rarely with the FBI, but if you want to discuss the process offline I would be happy to do so. Thank you, but I am a trained therapist and not a lawyer. Even though I've been waiting by the phone for weeks, the FBI hasn't bothered to call me about their FISA warrants, so I'm guessing they have somebody else to do that work. In hindsight, that's probably lucky for me. 34 minutes ago, vasubandu said: The thing is I could go buy a pair of Seatons or Rhymthiks or whatever and had a great sub. So my issue not so much getting a pair of good subwoofers as figuring out whether this idea has any legs. If someone else has tried and it does not work, then great, but if not, then it is terra nova, and that I cannot resist. I can see you have a lot or original thinking, and that's cool. I mean that, I don't have an original thought in my head. I just don't visualize that way and I am in awe of creative people who look at the same old problem in a brand new way. Especially on the PE site there some incredibly creative speaker projects, not just audio wise, but with speaker enclosures so original thinking on speakers and subs is out there. I'm suggesting to you this is the Klipsch Discussion Forum and if you are seeking concrete advice (better than mine, which is rudimentary at best) it would help you to sign up on the AVSforum.com site. You will get feedback there from people who have done all kinds of sub projects, people that have subs as their passion. The Subwoofers sub-forum of the Klipsch site is not the right venue for technical help on a DIY project. To get some feedback or ideas from your friends here on Klipsch.com I don't think is a problem but for anything more in-depth to design a sub project nobody has ever done before, AVSforum.com is the place to go. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/ Think of it as a court of original jurisdiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, cincymat said: Here you go, step by step instructions: I cannot thank you enough for that. As much as I looked, I never found it, but he used the format I am talking about. Different river configuration, but at least is is a start and it comes with direction. @cincymat you just made my day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, wvu80 said: the FBI hasn't bothered to call me about their FISA warrants, so I'm guessing they have somebody else to do that work. In hindsight, that's probably lucky for me I would not be sure of that. Attorneys always wait until the last minute. The might call you and ask if you can testify tomorrow. What I was offering was some insight into how attorneys think. Given your background you probably don't need it, but if have any questions, they are better answered than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasubandu Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I can see you have a lot or original thinking, and that's cool. It is cool until you approach everything with original thinking. I am constantly fighting the way things are, and it is not really a good habit. Then again, nor is cocaine, but some people seem to like it. I frequent about 5 forums including this one, AVS and some focused on subwoofers. I have found people here to be more receptive to unusual ideas and more helpful across the board. I like the people I have met here more than the ones I have met elsewhere. I have tried to limit my questions to Klipsch matters, but the subwoofer forum seems to be more focused on other brands, so I went off the reservation so to speak. No one on any other forum has mentioned the link that @cincymat provided, and that is the most helpful thing I have found so far. In any event, point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlipschFish Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I'd rather be more ignorant and less stupid. No question is too dumb in the pursuit of information. My $.02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, vasubandu said: No one on any other forum has mentioned the link that @cincymat provided, and that is the most helpful thing I have found so far. I've seen Sonotube builds before and the one @cincymatlinked to was the most detailed I've seen. It looks like a cool build, but is it a good subwoofer? In other words, does it do what it is supposed to do? What that build link did NOT have was a chart of the measured frequency response. I'm not normally a charts and graphs guy, but other charts I've seen on Sonotube builds usually show a VERY narrow usable band. In other words they tend to be a one-note wonder, boomy and not very musical. Read the article with the link very carefully. The Builder doesn't like it, he said he replaced his drivers because he wanted more output. But then after he replaced the drivers, he still didn't like it, he's still trying to fix the sound. "After I had listened to the subwoofers for about six months, I decided to try them with the ports bunged. I bunged them, calibrated the sound system again and had a listen. There is to my ears anyway an improvement in sound quality now so I'm leaving them like that." He spent a LOT of time money and effort to make giant sonotube sub that doesn't work as well as a standard sub. There's a lesson in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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