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Klipsch Heresy Reviews - stevehuffphoto & stereolifemagazine


edwinr

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26 minutes ago, thebes said:

They all be better speakers if they had Paul Klipsch design their products.

 

Baltic Birch. Me likeum!

 

Oh and MDF is about 40% cheaper than Baltic Birch, so gee, I wonder why they use it.

 

Richard Vandersteen, Paul Barton and Andrew Jones are all pretty terrific speaker designers too - and all use MDF.  

 

Remember, it's a 40% reduction of only ONE of the great many costs of producing a speaker.  That could literally equate to just $30-40 per speaker pair.

 

It's pure folly to think Klipsch would rather pocket a small cost savings, than gain the significant audible advantage you seem to think using Birch guarantees.

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7 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Are you taking any measures whatsoever to rule out expectation bias??  As I've suggested before, use a different cable for L and R channels, play a mono song and push your speakers close to each other (Yes, you have K-horns.  Still, get a friend, put 'em on some sliders, and this can be accomplished easily), now switch back and forth using your balance control.  You really hear these big differences??  I highly doubt you will.

 

As for amps.. Any modern day amp that is engineered to be linear, and is not driven beyond it's operating limits will sound identical to any other such amp.  This is even true of comparing a well-engineered Tube amp to a SS amp.  ..Don't believe me?  Go to a McIntosh dealer and compare their SS amps to their Tube amps.  ..If volumes are precisely matched (a MUST when comparing amps) you will not be able to tell them apart.  that's a promise.

 

I so wish PWK was around to weigh in on this.  I would bet all my gear that he would say what I've said above is true.

I've been around and spent my hard earned cash.  I don't need to go to a dealer.  I used to have a closet full of amplifiers. I could hook them up and they all sound different.  Swap them cable for cable.  Still the same.

I am now down to a 2 Pioneer SC1222, Panasonic XR70, Murano Audio P200s, Murano Audio P500+s, Yamaha 795, and Bel Canto Ref 1000s.  Just sold my XPA-2 and Rogue 88.  Had a host of others such as Monarchy SM-70 monos, Jolida 801, Adcom GFA-555, Marantz, Harman Kardon, Yamaha amplifiers among others. 

 

These amps must all be bad because they have their sonic signatures, particularly when matched with certain speakers because their loads react differently and their current / damping factors are different among a lot of other things.

 

I wish what you said was correct.  I would be able to sell everything I have but the inexpensive Panasonic or SC1222 and live happily ever after.

 

 

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" Oh and MDF is about 40% cheaper than Baltic Birch, so gee, I wonder why they use it. ". Please do not imply that accountants make decisions engineers have to try and make work as best they can.

 

  Just for the heck of it Google "MDF versus Baltic Birch for professional speaker cabinets" and see what the consensus is there and gobs of reasons for Baltic Birch.

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2 hours ago, pzannucci said:

I wish what you said was correct.  I would be able to sell everything I have but the inexpensive Panasonic or SC1222 and live happily ever after.

 

 As much as I don't want to flame, I am of the opinion that perhaps your less expensive amplifiers will do the trick if you're focusing on sound quality alone.  Those that are more technically qualified than I am have said before that setting amplifier sound levels by ear alone isn't good enough.  Even a fraction of a db level difference between amplifiers  (in other words one amplifier is only slightly louder than the other) can fool the human ear into believing the slightly louder amplifier sounds better.

 

That is not to say that buying expensive amplifiers isn't a good idea.  If money wasn't an issue, I would be happy to spend money on glowing tubes and esoteric solid state finery - just because I love the way they look and I like the feel of chunky controls and watching fancy meters at work when I play music.

 

 

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On 2/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, thebes said:

Maybe they are fooling you by actually building a cable to spec. In other words, maybe they may have actually built a cable that actually transfers the signal instead of attenuating it someway or another.

 

IMO cables are stereo bunkum. They were designed to  carry a signal not change it.

 

Heresy's a wonderful speaker for what they are and have kept the company in clover through many a hard time. If they dug a little bit lower they would be unbeatable for their size.

 

Construction. I'm a big fan of Baltic Birch. Adds a bit of juice or liveliness to the speakers, whereas MDF can be a buzz killer. I'll let both descriptive adjectives stand.

 

I use speaker and interconnect cables which I purchased from the local pro audio store.  They are of a good gauge and very flexible and cost me only a few dollars.  How anyone can charge $15,000 to $20,000 for a set of speaker cables is beyond me.  And there are audio magazines who review these cables talking about their 'sound quality' and their 'bass and treble response' and their ability to throw a 'vast soundstage'.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Re the Heresy lll; every Heresy I've heard sounds wonderful, but with the latest version, Klipsch have significantly improved their bass response.

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On 2/16/2018 at 7:03 AM, ODS123 said:

 

Audible differences between modern amplifiers/ receivers, etc.. that are functioning w/in their operating limits (which would be easy for Heresy's given their incredible efficiency) will be indistinguishable.  Ditto with respect to cables, etc..

 NAW, There is a reason I use a Denon over some other brands of AVR's.

It sounds Better. Sounds better than the Onkyo, or Yamaha I had.

No way they all sound the same.

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5 hours ago, rebuy said:

 NAW, There is a reason I use a Denon over some other brands of AVR's.

It sounds Better. Sounds better than the Onkyo, or Yamaha I had.

No way they all sound the same.

 

I believe you believe they sound better, but that doesn't mean they do.  Without taking any steps to mitigate expectation bias you're simply making the same "yes, I can hear the difference" claim that many others do in this hobby.

 

Again, in a clinical trial for a popular Asthma inhaler, 30% of the patients who received a placebo claimed to experience a reduction in symptoms.  And this happens almost EVERY time patients are given a placebo in a double-blinded clinical trial.  This doesn't mean they are weak-minded,  they are simply responding to the expectation that the medication they've been given will help them.  

 

An identical phenomena happens in this hobby when it comes to hearing differences b/w amps, cables, MDF vs Birch, tuning rocks set on speakers, power cords, and on and on.  Thankfully, when it comes to medications, the use of blinded trials to ensure true efficacy and safety is widely embraced (and mandated by the FDA), unfortunately this is not so w/ audio gear.

 

I'm betting if PWK were here today, he would wholeheartedly agree that this hobby suffers terribly from a widespread disinterest in empirical evidence.

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12 hours ago, edwinr said:

 As much as I don't want to flame, I am of the opinion that perhaps your less expensive amplifiers will do the trick if you're focusing on sound quality alone.  Those that are more technically qualified than I am have said before that setting amplifier sound levels by ear alone isn't good enough.  Even a fraction of a db level difference between amplifiers  (in other words one amplifier is only slightly louder than the other) can fool the human ear into believing the slightly louder amplifier sounds better.

 

That is not to say that buying expensive amplifiers isn't a good idea.  If money wasn't an issue, I would be happy to spend money on glowing tubes and esoteric solid state finery - just because I love the way they look and I like the feel of chunky controls and watching fancy meters at work when I play music.

 

 

I'm also trying not to flame but actually I wish that was true.  They do sound different.

 

If it was a prejudice of price, I wouldn't say my most inexpensive mono amp sounds best with the KLFs.  As for looks, I consider the Bel Cantos ugly.  I can readily tell you which amp/speaker pairing (I have a bunch of amps and speakers) do what right better than others.  The good part is they are all competent amps that don't do anything really wrong.  They just provide different perspectives.

The day this struck me was a day I was using the BO based P200s running khorns I owned at the time.  I had liked the P200s running the KLF30s but when using with khorns I realized there was something wrong with the bass.  I did go back to an article I had found on the Bel Canto s300 or one of them using the same modules and they stated the same exact thing I was hearing.  Non-gelled bass.  The amps do sound great with other speakers as other articles also printed.

 

Suffice it to say there is a synergy between speakers and amps that will may impact the final presentation.  I wish my most expensive amps were jewelry as you are stating otherwise they wouldn't be hiding in a cabinet.

 

By the way, if there was something like a transformer or autoformer on the output stage, that may end up being what is heard.  Apparently good iron is key which will also change the character of the end system.

 

If someone can't hear the difference for whatever reason between the amps, then fantastic.  You don't have to search for a holy grail which burns your wallet as I did.  Anyone want to buy some used amps? :D

 

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The expectation bias mythos should not be used as a blanket statement as if any other form analysis is irrelevant. 

 

The belief that an educated observer can not distinguish a difference solely based on the fact that said observer is not aware of tested artifacts is flawed in this application... not knowing which generator is which is irrelevant.

 

Stop using that argument as a crutch to bolster a position.

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

An identical phenomena happens in this hobby when it comes to hearing differences b/w amps, cables, MDF vs Birch, tuning rocks set on speakers, power cords, and on and on.  Thankfully, when it comes to medications, the use of blinded trials to ensure true efficacy and safety is widely embraced (and mandated by the FDA), unfortunately this is not so w/ audio gear.

 

I'm betting if PWK were here today, he would wholeheartedly agree that this hobby suffers terribly from a widespread disinterest in empirical evidence.

It is well known the impact and the different enclosure types between birch and MDF as to the impact on particular frequencies.  Factor in bracing and size of panels, you can figure out which would be better for mids and which would be better for bass.

To me the densest, most inert enclosure with mitigations against reflections back to and through the cone, with zero damping would be the best.  No allowance for driver vibration and no pretending to help the driver by damping the back way to get rid of it.  When you start damping, you are throwing away or muddying.  I just can't afford to build an enclosure such as that nor would shipping it be reasonable.

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6 minutes ago, Schu said:

The expectation bias mythos should not be used as a blanket statement as if any other form analysis is irrelevant. 

 

Expectation bias is not a myth.   ..If you believe it is, please explain.

 

So what sort of empirical evidence would you accept as conclusive in settling the question, "are there audible differences b/w modern day audio amplifiers?"  You certainly don't believe mere anecdotal evidence - which is all that is being offered in this thread - is sufficient, do you?

 

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27 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

It is well known the impact and the different enclosure types between birch and MDF as to the impact on particular frequencies.  Factor in bracing and size of panels, you can figure out which would be better for mids and which would be better for bass.

 

Where's the evidence?  ..You're simply piling on more and more assertions.

 

As I said, if it's true that using Birch would add 40% to the wood cost, it's important to remember that is only ONE of the great many costs of producing a speaker, and it's probably way down the list (labor being first, then overhead, then drivers, then - possibly - wood).  Worst case scenario, I would guess it add just $30-40  (and probably way less) per speaker pair of Heresy's.

 

It's unbelievable to think Klipsch would rather pocket a small cost savings, than - for the low low price of $30-$40 - gain the HUGE audible advantage you seem to think using Birch guarantees.  A decision which would inevitably lead to an increase in sales.  Why would they NOT do this?

 

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5 minutes ago, Schu said:

The expectation bias mythos should not be used as a blanket statement as if any other form analysis is irrelevant. 

 

The belief that an educated observer can not distinguish a difference solely based on the fact that said observer is not aware of tested artifacts is flawed in this application... not knowing which generator is which is irrelevant.

 

Stop using that argument as a crutch to bolster a position.

My point when I stated my Bel Cantos are ugly.  I wish they prettied them up when they cost as much as they do.  Not expensive by others pressure points but I do wish they looked as good as the Jeff Roland Model 201s which are the same amplifier as my P500s.   Nor would I say my most inexpensive amps sounded better than my $4k amps in certain matchings.

 

7 hours ago, rebuy said:

 NAW, There is a reason I use a Denon over some other brands of AVR's.

It sounds Better. Sounds better than the Onkyo, or Yamaha I had.

No way they all sound the same.

I do know I would not match a mid level Yamaha with RF series speakers unless I had to tailor the high end.  Every matching I heard had too much in the highs and I like a subtle roll off and more drive in the bass.  I do believe the Denons are more in this category.

10 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

Expectation bias is not a myth.   ..If you believe it is, please explain.

 

So what sort of empirical evidence would you accept as conclusive in settling the question, "are there audible differences b/w modern day audio amplifiers?"  You certainly don't believe mere anecdotal evidence - which is all that is being offered in this thread - is sufficient, do you?

 

Someday I might have to have a get together and have a listen. I'm down to around six different amplification devices and four different speakers so maybe not enough.  

 

I do believe your statement about Expectation Bias.  It is very true but not in this instance though. 

 

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1 minute ago, ODS123 said:

 

Where's the evidence?  ..You're simply piling on more and more assertions.

 

As I said, if it's true that using Birch would add 40% to the wood cost, it's important to remember that is only ONE of the great many costs of producing a speaker, and it's probably way down the list (labor being first, then overhead, then drivers, then - possibly - wood).  Worst case scenario, I would guess it add just $30-40  (and probably way less) per speaker pair of Heresy's.

 

It's unbelievable to think Klipsch would rather pocket a small cost savings, than - for the low low price of $30-$40 - gain the HUGE audible advantage you seem to think using Birch guarantees. 

 

Yes my statement was absolutely true, panel for panel, they get excited at different frequencies with specific Q / ability to damp themselves.  Well known fact based on the types.  Same as wood.  Bracing is just a mitigation to not having proper density / self damping enclosure walls and not a cure.

 

Remember when Klipsch started building speakers, MDF or HDF wasn't prevalent though crappy particle board was.  Also birch is easier to keep together.

 

The last statement I do not understand.  Ah was snipped out in the middle of my response.

 

>>  It's unbelievable to think Klipsch would rather pocket a small cost savings, than - for the low low price of $30-$40 - gain the HUGE audible advantage you seem to think using Birch guarantees. 

 

Bottom line is I advocate the stiffest, most dense, most rigid material I can find that is thick enough to not vibrate and requires minimal damping for the particular frequencies it is to operate.  Materials such as this would likely need damping material due to reflections when the frequency wavelength is as such to interfere with the output.  Good reason to keep the bass very low in cut off (wavelength is long compared to enclosure) and provide firm but damped material for midrange to maintain snap / non-overdamped sound.

 

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Love these quasi-religious fights about cables, SS versus tubes, write anything you want here compared with anything else you want here....in the end, what sounds good to you, with your music, in your system, in your home IS best for you.  If you’re system playing music moves you to get out of your chair to dance with your wife, you truely have mastered the subject!  These physics experts and electrical engineers can enjoy that aspect of this hobby as they wish (and constantly bicker about how many angels can fit in the head of a pin) but it always amazes me how they take a subjective conversation about how a complex music reproduction system pleases individuals and try to “teach” the rest of us something about what we should enjoy.  Many of us have spent a lot of time and effort to put together a system that please us musically and aesthetically, we juggled many or all of the components in the system until it sounded best to us.  Hilarious to see some forum members telling others they are wrong in thier choice or don’t really hear differences. If a hundred dollars got you a system that gets your toe tapping I congratulate you, if it’s cost you ten thousand I also congratulate you, you are receiving the gift of musical enjoyment.  If you are trying to put someone’s down for thier tastes or preferences you should probably troll at prop-head or tech at audio asylum.  Here at the Klipsch forums we have more tolerance traditionally than that, sharing opinions and experiences while trying not to cross the line into dogma or preaching. Or I could be wrong and the forum has degraded...regards, Tony

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I have had the Heresy III for three months and I have to say they are great speakers for the money.   40 watts of EL34 is plenty and they sound big and bold.   Not "polite" like my last few speakers.... which were fine , don't get me wrong but the H3 REALLY rock .    Love 'em

 

I'm using a c-j Classic 2SE pre and Quicksilver mono amps but just for fun I connected the Heresy to a circa 1979 Technics 15 watt RX and they still sounded pretty good .....

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I wish I could say all amps, receivers etc sound the same, it would make life easier, but in my experience especially with Klipsch Chorus II's and Quartets and various Magnepans I can always count on the amp/receiver to have an effect on the sound.  I loved the looks of my (both now departed) Proton AA-1150 and D-1200 amps with the big beautiful green power meters but not the sound compared to others.  And there were others that failed to impress, mostly forgotten now, guess I'd post this just to have an excuse to show off one of my favorite looking pieces of audio art.

proton aa-1150 front.jpg

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Love these quasi-religious fights about cables, SS versus tubes, write anything you want here compared with anything else you want here....in the end, what sounds good to you, with your music, in your system, in your home IS best for you.  If you’re system playing music moves you to get out of your chair to dance with your wife, you truely have mastered the subject!  These physics experts and electrical engineers can enjoy that aspect of this hobby as they wish (and constantly bicker about how many angels can fit in the head of a pin) but it always amazes me how they take a subjective conversation about how a complex music reproduction system pleases individuals and try to “teach” the rest of us something about what we should enjoy.  Many of us have spent a lot of time and effort to put together a system that please us musically and aesthetically, we juggled many or all of the components in the system until it sounded best to us.  Hilarious to see some forum members telling others they are wrong in thier choice or don’t really hear differences. If a hundred dollars got you a system that gets your toe tapping I congratulate you, if it’s cost you ten thousand I also congratulate you, you are receiving the gift of musical enjoyment.  If you are trying to put someone’s down for thier tastes or preferences you should probably troll at prop-head or tech at audio asylum.  Here at the Klipsch forums we have more tolerance traditionally than that, sharing opinions and experiences while trying not to cross the line into dogma or preaching. Or I could be wrong and the forum has degraded...regards, Tony

Thought this was worth repeating.

 

To my ears, in order of overall effect on sound reproduction and/or between individual make/models.

 

The room you are in.

Speakers

Preamplifier/receiver 

Amplifier class 

Amplifier make model within same class

Interconnects

Source device make/model (excluding TT)

Speaker cables

 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, rah said:

I wish I could say all amps, receivers etc sound the same, it would make life easier, but in my experience especially with Klipsch Chorus II's and Quartets and various Magnepans I can always count on the amp/receiver to have an effect on the sound.  I loved the looks of my (both now departed) Proton AA-1150 and D-1200 amps with the big beautiful green power meters but not the sound compared to others.  And there were others that failed to impress, mostly forgotten now, guess I'd post this just to have an excuse to show off one of my favorite looking pieces of audio art.

proton aa-1150 front.jpg

Reminds me of the older Carver M-500

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