Q-Man Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I switched to the Altec 290-16K driver and the 311-90 horn. I also went to the JBL 2404H tweeter. I like this much better then the 288/805B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Not to be a party-pooper, but I just gotta ask...did you not like the sound of the Klipschorns in their original condition? It almost seems like a sacrilege to me to give a fairly new pair of Khorns a lobotomy like the one you performed. I know this is the Odds & Mods Forum, and I'm not knocking what you did (and I know that Altec and JBL made wonderful horns), but to change out a new pair of Klipschorns just seems wrong to me. Enlighten me with your reasoning behind changing out your squawkers (I know you mentioned the improvement in their overall sound in your first post, but I'm asking please for more details). For what it's worth, you did a great job (they look great), but I'm curious to their sound with your tube components as opposed to your Khorns in their original state. Thanks for your time, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 j1stcan, Mark doesn't visit the Forum too much, so it might be a while before he answers. I pulled up an old post that you can read to see my opinion of some of these mods. I don't want to try to explain the sound again. I do want to chime in and say, Yes it is very hard at first to attempt to modify a Klipschorn. First reason is that I never heard a speaker that I liked better then the Klipschorn. Second, some mods can take up a lot of time and space while getting them right. This 290/311 mod is into about it's seventh month and I'm now replacing diaphragms. Third, sometimes they arn't really an improvement at all. You must get brave and take some of the members opinions and try them. I built the Jensen Imperial back loaded bass horn because someone said that it sounded better then the Klipschorn. Then I built the University Classic basshorn because another person said that this was one of the best bass horns that he ever heard. That's all I have to hear to get me going and building again, and I enjoy building bass horns. Meanwhile I never touched my precious Klipschorns or Lascalas. I had three pairs of LaScalas and two pairs of Klipschorns. Well I can't say that I didn't touch them because I updated drivers and networks so they would all sound the same, but that's not really a mod. Then after reading Marks post on the 288/805 I decided to mess with the midrange and see if he was right. Before this I just built different bass horns to compare with the Klipschorn and LaScala. The University Classic also allowed me to listen to some different midrange drivers and horns, something that I never did before. This kind of had a snow ball effect, and the ball was rolling down hill. The 288/805B was nice, but it's too weak from 400Hz to 600Hz. With more reasearch I learned of the 290/311 and this is the right combo. Having an extra pair of Klipschorns available to play around with also made it easier to decide to try things. I never did and never will tell anyone to do what I did. I just like to talk about what I find out and what I think about some of these mods and speakers. You will also notice that I give quick first impressions that will change as time goes on and I listen more. I sometimes get too excited and need to learn to keep my mouth shut untill the project is complete. I also would have never done any of these things if it wasn't for this forum. This forum has been a great tool for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Q-Man, thanks for the response. If I had several old pairs of horns and cabinets lying around, I'd certainly try a DIY project. Hey, as long as Mark's happy with the overall sound, then that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted October 26, 2003 Author Share Posted October 26, 2003 You asked why I modified the Klipschorns so soon after I received them. I grew up with Klipschorns and although they did some things very well but they are extremely sensitive to slight variations. I think Paul Klipsch was very brillant audio guy but I think he cut corners on the mid range and the crossover. The transient response of the Klipschorns are excellent. The only thing better are the LaScalla. The Khorn goes lower but the LaScallas are cleaner, due in my opinion to a shorter horn. In the first 30 days of owning the K horns, even after extensive break in I just did not like the mid range. They were harsh and edgy. I then experimented with different drivers and horn combinations. I first tried the Altec 511b horn with the JBL 2420 driver. Better but the horn rang. I then tried a 300 cps Dukane horn. Much better. Lastly I tried the Altec 805b horn with the Altec 288 16K driver along with the ALK crossover. I bought Al's 4th crossover he made. I liked it so well I bought a second set for my LaScalla's. Also, I have tried many tube amps with the Klipschorns and find the 2A3 Single ended triode with a good components and tubes really makes the Klipschorns sound sweet. I know everyone has there own taste in sound and to each tere own. I am very fussy and if it doesn't sound right to me it got to go. I play both vinyl and CD's. My turntable is the VPI HR-X and the CD player a AH! Tjoeb 4000 with the upsampler and all the goodies. I use a passive preamp and DH Lab wires. Other equipment I have is: Altec 604b's with custom crossver Klipsch desgned corner speakers with Altec 515b' and 511b horns Tangent RS6 speakers Marantz 8b Audio Research D76A Audio Research SP8 preamp Cary 2A3 SET mono blocks Cary SLP98 Welborne MoonDogs Welborne Reveille passive Lil Wonder passive Counterpoint basic Counterpoint preamp McIntosh MR67 Tuner LaScalla's and so on. Too much stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I am 100% for serious tweaking. That's how PWK came up with these things in the first place. It's like building a hot-rod. Some people think that you should restore it to its original condition and some want to modify it to go fast. It's the American Way. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 "Not to be a party-pooper, but I just gotta ask...did you not like the sound of the Klipschorns in their original condition? It almost seems like a sacrilege to me to give a fairly new pair of Khorns a lobotomy like the one you performed." I agree! Not taking anything away from the Altecs but why "desecrate" a great speaker. I would spend the dollars and buy the new A7 reissue ($10K) and be done with it if the altec sound is what you prefer............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Guys, Here's another Khorn mod. It's an Altec 511b and the stock T-35 tweeter. The 511b mounting flange was sliced down so that the top didn't have to be raised. This made it stick out the front a bit. I could have been mounted from behind too. This was done by a friend. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustyoldsarge Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 You gotta be single! Bet they sound great, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 CWM Not to desicrate a bad speaker but to improve a very good speaker. My opinion: Paul Klipsch was a genius but I think he cut corners on the crossover and mid range. He uses cheap wiring, cheap caps with protection and a sqawker that rings with a small and marginal sounding driver. I grew up with Klipschorns and Altec A7's and several other variations. The original Klipschorn's after listening to for a period of time were so edgy that I had to leave the room and take a break. Now that is completely gone. I think Paul would be proud of the dedicated following and like Paul was never really satisfied. That's what kept him going well into his 90's. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Mark, It's the Belle that has the shorter horn. The LaScala has the same K400. The Belle has the K500. Bet you knew this but stated it wrong. Excuse my correcting you. After swapping my Belles for Khorns I think I like the Belles squawker better too. Seems to me I like the feel/sound of drums better with Belles. But have not had the Khorns long enough to make a decision on this. I had also done the Harmony 1uf bypass cap mod on the Belles where as these Khorns I have do not have that mod yet. Should be getting my ALK's very soon now and can't wait to hear them. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Those look great Mark! Wish I could hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Dean, I have an idea that your new Klipschorns might sound better then the previous years. I think it is do to the new networks, not the drivers. The pictures that I saw of those networks looked like they have higher quality parts. The right network can make a lot of difference. On the other hand, I also believe that the right Altec driver and network will also have a nicer sound then the new Klipschorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 Just an update. I recently retubed my Welborne Moondogs with Sylvania VT-231 in the first stage and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base in the driver stage with RCA Single plate 2A3's. The RCA are the 1933 vintage without the support rods. RCA made single plates from 1933 to 1936 and then change to double plate in 1937. The changes were sweeter mids and high frequncies and the bass remained clean and tight. It always amazes me as to how different tubes and combinations makes a "not so subtle" a difference in sound. Still love the modified Klipschorns. I also have to say that vinyl is better than CD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Mark, What tubes had you been using in the Moondogs before this? Also, where did you run across those single plate RCA 2A3's? That's a pretty rare find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Hi There, I agree with DeanG, the AK4 plus minor driver updates works better than I had expected. I can remember my older Klipsch models and the ringing and harshness at close to peak levels where the AK4 creates a sense of presence rather than not wanting to be in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Daddy Dee, I found the Single plates from e-bay. They were in the original box and the boxes were in good condition. I had to pay $640 for the pair with shipping. You can see the tubes on e-bay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2284799146&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT I can tell you they were worth every penny. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophile53 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Just an update on the Khorns. Now triamping, solid state on the bass, Welborne 2A3 mid-range and Welborne 45 on top. Also have the system time aligned. Woofer stock, med-range B&C DCM50 with Eliptrac horn, B&C DE120 tweeter. Room is acoustically treated with diaphragmatic absorbers, acoustic panels and quadratic residue diffusers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybadger Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Nice, dug this one out of the archives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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