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Jimjimbo made me do it ...


Deang

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9 hours ago, Deang said:

The B&C DE-120 is the go-to tweeter in the drop in replacement category. Both Bob and Al use it, however, with Dave shutting down shop, I think Bob is the only game in town. I think Dave might be persuaded to keep up production of the small horn - I’ll send him a text and see what he says. 

I hadn't that Dave shut down his shop. Sorry to hear that. I'm very happy with the Eliptrac-400 & ContracT horns I bought from him. Good guy to deal with.

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48 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:


I have no idea what you’re talking about?

 

When I first posted about the A55-g just over a year ago:

 

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 3:53 PM, cincymat said:

 

Seriously, would you upgrade to these drivers if you already had the dual phase plug K55V drivers?

 

Mark

 

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 4:14 PM, jimjimbo said:

Nope, IMHO, not worth the time, or additional expense, and I would imagine not a significant discernable delta.

 

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3 hours ago, Deang said:

I feel dumb for waiting so long to do this - it sounds really nice. Time to say goodbye to the K-77. 

As much as I like the A55-g I honestly felt the k-77 to CT-120 tweeter was a larger, more noticeable improvement. Both drivers together are the best I've ever owned, very happy with both upgrades. 

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Converted these to AA’s. I pulled the high dollar Jupiter copper foil cap, and replaced it with the MultiCap RTX polystyrene caps. 

 

I know it looks a little goofy, but I really didn’t feel like completely rebuilding them. So technically a hack job - but the connections are good. 

 

Sounds outstanding.

4E4F66C5-DD15-41FD-9F43-8691F29BBB53.jpeg

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18 minutes ago, Deang said:

I don’t understand the question? Sorry. 

I think Shu's question was "why did you pull the Jupiter caps."

 

My follow-up would be why did you go with Type AA's?  I was thinking you were going to go with Type A.  The CT-120 probably has better power handling than the K-77 and better able to work with the Type A.

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I’ll take a guess.

 

I bought the MultiCap RTX polystyrenes from Jeff Glowacki of Soniccraft - because the price was right. I’ve always wanted to try these, but back in the day - they were $60 each. At $30 a pop - I thought the time was right.

 

Jim felt the Type A was a little “closed in” sounding, and thought the AA was more open and “airy”. So, since I wanted to hear these caps - I thought it was a good time to try them.  I’m impressed. Jeff has 10 pieces left, and I think I’m going to buy his remaining stock. 

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20 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I think Shu's question was "why did you pull the Jupiter caps."

 

My follow-up would be why did you go with Type AA's?  I was thinking you were going to go with Type A.  The CT-120 probably has better power handling than the K-77 and better able to work with the Type A.

I thought the same time thing, that the Type A would work great with the B&C DE-120, but Jim is right, the AA sounds better. This doesn’t really surprise me. 

 

I pulled the Jupiter because I wanted to hear the MultiCaps. What an amazing product!

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1 hour ago, Deang said:

I don’t understand the question? Sorry. 

Why... as in what are you trying to accomplish? Just trying out parts or are you looking for some solution to an existing perceived issue?

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On 3/1/2018 at 8:29 PM, Deang said:

I have some pristine dual phase plug K-55’s. I’m going to load them up with new diaphragms from Bob, and put this debate permanently to rest. 

Let us know what you think of them, with new diaphragms installed. I wonder how much difference can be attributed to fresh diaphragms. 

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On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:01 PM, Schu said:

Why... as in what are you trying to accomplish? Just trying out parts or are you looking for some solution to an existing perceived issue?

Both.

 

The Type A just doesn’t handle high output - it sounds very strained. After I put the new tweeters in, it was better, but not by much. At lower volumes, Jim felt the AA sounded more “airy” or open, while The A had a “closed in” quality.

 

I grabbed a cap and a coil, and clipped together an AA circuit for a quick listen. I had always noticed the difference that Jim described to me, but for some reason, could never describe it to myself. I think I tend to get so down into the weeds that maybe I don’t see as good as I’d like to think. 

 

I also think the Jupiter copper foil is overrated, and I’ve pushed it into voodoo territory. I think a good film is a good film, though I do like the added measure of protection the cylinder provides. 

 

I compared the circuit with two Jupiter copper foils vs two MultiCap RTX capacitors, and had a slight preference for the MultiCaps - which is good, because I wasn’t about to shell out $300 for two more copper Jupiter’s

 

There was another issue, but I would have to go back and repeat everything to be sure, and I don’t have time or patience for it right now. I lost two days in the workroom, which is what got me into trouble before (falling behind). 

 

My list of best capacitors for rebuilds:

 

Metallized:

Auricap

Jantzen Superior-Z

Audyn Plus

ClarityCap CSA

Sonicap

Jantzen Standard

Jantzen Crosscap 

Dayton

 

No particular order with the middle group, it’s completely subjective. They do sound different. Dayton is at the bottom because while they sound fine, I’ve never been impressed with their construction - and Bob won’t use them because ESR is all over the map, which points to QA issues. They are rated by my personal bias and preference, but as Al was always quick to remind me, “you’re just one guy in one room”. 

 

Mundorf is not on the list. I just don't have any personal experience with them, though I've heard great things about them.

 

EDIT: Rigma's Jubilee networks were built with Mundorf Supremes, and they sounded outstanding. 

 

Film and Foil:

Jupiter VT

MutiCap RTX

AudioCap PPT Theta

 

Best of the best. However, values are limited. 

 

Paper in oil if you prefer a slightly darker tone, which I’m sure is due to the higher ESR. However, as clean sounding as a film and foil. 

 

And yes, new tweeters and Dayton capacitors will sound better than film and foils with the K-77. But, don’t get too comfortable with the entry level caps - they’re entry level for a reason. Build with film and foils in the tweeter circuit if at all possible. 

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16 hours ago, absolve2525 said:

Let us know what you think of them, with new diaphragms installed. I wonder how much difference can be attributed to fresh diaphragms. 

 

That’ the plan. 

 

Bob and me traded some email about this the other day. Since John Allen’s goal was to recreate the two port phase plug version of the K-55-V  - I shouldn’t expect to hear much if any difference between them. We’ll see. 

 

What’s matters here is that if a person is using the single port spring loaded version, they have access to a better driver without having to scour eBay waiting for that rare Atlas breed to show up. 

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3 hours ago, Deang said:

 

. Since John Allen’s goal was to recreate the two port phase plug version of the K-55-V  - I shouldn’t expect to hear much if any difference between them. We’ll see. 

 

What’s matters here is that if a person is using the single port spring loaded version, they have access to a better driver without having to scour eBay waiting for that rare Atlas breed to show up. 

I don't understand why it would have taken 10 years and $150k to duplicate something like this, couldn't he just have reversed engineered one if that was his goal? Isn't the only difference between the soldered lug and spring loaded versions the phase plug or is there more to it? Is the diaphragm material the same in all 3? 

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