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boxerjake

imaging ?

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1 hour ago, Schu said:

I am fairly certain networks are driver dependent are they not?

Yeah, that's my experience too. The previous owner was under the impression these networks were designed for the TAD's. I verified it with Al K. prior to purchasing them.

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27 minutes ago, DavidH said:

 

Not the best photo, but you get the idea...

Q5nxMJl.jpg

 

 

Oh yeah!

 

So nice... 

 

Your bass bin has edge banding?

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1 minute ago, Schu said:

 

 

Oh yeah!

 

So nice... 

 

Your bass bin has edge banding?

Yeah, they're not factory jube bins.

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Those networks look nice.....:)

 

ALK ESN networks are designed for a specific woofer configuration.  The mid/high sections are universal anywhere in the 8-16 ohm range works with the stock swamping resistor installed.  So not for a specific mid/high frequency driver.........It's the woofer that matters.

 

I guess the important point to me is that there is no EQ in the network.  It is just a crossover.  This then leaves possibilities and flexibility for how to EQ the system.

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I have all the amps and a dx 38 that's been here for about 2 months and have yet found the desire to go active with the Jubes. With all components at hand there is no doubt it will happen but they sound so damn good with a NP FW F3 or Wyred mAmps or even NP Amp Camps that the urge just isn't there. Crites passives with Faital 200 Pro. Imaging is superb across a 23 foot front wall where the 402's saturate the sound front. The only real issue I find with Jubes is they leave little to no desire for additional Klipsch Heritage offerings. I just looked at a superbly built pair of Cornscalas and left slightly unimpressed. I fear they would sit next to the LS with infrequent play time. And I know the Cornwalls I would like to have would suffer the same fate. Drat you Jubilee --- ?!?

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So you run analog and get good imaging.  Can I ask what EQ you are using or how you are EQing the system?

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1 hour ago, DavidH said:

 

Not the best photo, but you get the idea...

Q5nxMJl.jpg

Yea, parts is parts...:P

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Man, that one litz coil looks like it's leaning over a bit, could you please straighten it, because it's driving me nuts.

 

I'm pretty sure that was all Auricaps when I finished them. I now see Mundorfs in the tweeter section. Yowza, deep pockets.

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2 minutes ago, Deang said:

Man, that one litz coil looks like it's leaning over a bit, could you please straighten it, because it's driving me nuts.

that's for proper phase shift:)

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23 minutes ago, babadono said:

Yea, parts is parts...:P

I had a few parts left over... it shouldn't matter to much, right? "Parts is parts" and "parts left out don't cost nothing and don't break", right?

f1RFtvp.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Deang said:

Man, that one litz coil looks like it's leaning over a bit, could you please straighten it, because it's driving me nuts.

 

I'm pretty sure that was all Auricaps when I finished them. I now see Mundorfs in the tweeter section. Yowza, deep pockets.

 

Dean you have an excellent memory! This is what they looked like when you completed them.

 

xS9FlLH.jpg

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Ask the designer - I’m just the builder. 

 

I did tack on the tweeter section from the Universal, so that part is 18dB/octave. 

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Interesting discussion. I just bought Cornwalls (mostly on reputation) and the thing I was most surprised about is that I don't care about the imaging that much- they are used in my living room which opens to the kitchen/dining and are in a very compromised placement. But they sound fantastic as long as I just enjoy the music, instead of sitting in the sweetspot (such as it is) and focusing on imaging. Which is usually a hugely important thing to me. But I have multiple listening spaces and lots of different speakers/systems (I'm a recording engineer) and I just realized if I want holographic reproduction I'll go downstairs to the studio. The Cornwalls bring so much to the table that outweighs pinpoint imaging in my case. 

All that being said- they image ok. It's not like you don't get a center image of the kick/snare or singer when they're panned dead center. Also, as others have said, the room and placement/treatment are pretty important if imaging is important to you. 

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7 hours ago, Chris A said:

There is a fairly interesting explanation for this but it doesn't really involve "analog only" or the magic of tubes, but rather preservation of phase information by the setup.  Much less likely are the effects of high output impedance present in single-ended triode or pentode amplifiers.  This type of imaging performance would be most likely case for those recordings that have the least amount of mastering processing (including mastering EQ) that has occurred to them. 

 

But that explanation involves that white paper by Dave Griesinger on the subject of clarity...a subject that was poo-pooed out of hand in another thread posted within the last couple of months.  I'll refrain from trying to explain because of the experience of that earlier thread. (The explanation is pretty cool, though.)  Feel free to PM however, if you're interested in understanding this subject.  It also relates to how the clarity of MEH-type loudspeakers is tied to polar good directivity control vs. frequency, low phase growth, and effective point source output as well as suppressing early reflections (0.7 to about 5 ms related delays) via increasing the ratio of low phase growth direct-to-reflected energy in room.

 

Chris

er...what? Perhaps I'm reading wrong, but are you saying you think 'all analog' systems will inherently produce better imaging than a system with say.. a digital front end and SS amp? And where did you get the idea that recordings that have the least amount of  "mastering processing" will have the best imaging? 

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Have heard countless speakers over my life and have owned a couple nice pairs. When it comes to imaging , soundstage and disappearing into the room, nothing I have ever heard comes close the the effortless the way my Ohm Accoustics Walsh Tall 2000s do so. Period. Soundstage, realism and time alignment are the fundamental goals of this design, much the way efficiency , clarity and high DB from minimal watts are the focus and goal of Klipsch designs.  There is not so much a sweet spot as a very wide sweet area where everything comes together in a very natural sounding way. That this seems to extend quite far off axis is an added bonus. Not for everyone, that’s for sure, but with my tastes and in my particular room they are spectacular.

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A friend and client is a member of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.  He has enjoyed his original Ohm Walsh speakers for decades.  Unfortunately, I’ve not really had much chance to hear them put through their paces.

 

Coincidentally, he lives across the street from Seaholm High School, where La Scalas I rescued from an Ohio bar serve the band with loud and clear music.

 

OBTW, is it just me, or does “imaging” in the thread title look like it’s spelled wrong?  It isn’t, but it just looks wrong to me.

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I think it's like when you say a word too many times, it starts to sound wrong. like chipmunk. 

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Check out these two offerings recently purchased from HDtracks.  Feeding the differential/balanced outputs of a Pono player into the balanced inputs of a class D Wiener TPA3118 allows my DIY, @ClaudeJ1, “Super Heresys” to image like my DIY Fostex FE103 single drivers, but with treble, bass, and dynamics the single drivers can only dream of.

 

The rendition by the late great Miss Peggy Lee of Why Don’t You Do Right? is spectacular.  The imaging is spot on.  The dynamics are fantastic, from barely audible finger snapping, to a blast from a sax.  The plucked bass and percussion are superb.  When the music ends, quiet footsteps and whistling go from right to left and away from the listener until a door opens and shuts in the background.

 

The  Chesky album has 72 tracks all designed to show off the capabilities of a good system.  At $39.98, that works out to a little more than $0.50/track.  Throw in 15 tracks for $4.98 on the Audiogon offering and they’re a true bargain.  HDtracks always has promos.  These were an additional 20% off.

 

 

23613B20-DF25-4CF4-9DBE-AE916D6F45C2.jpeg

85E014D2-56F9-4FA0-A5CF-1099D7078185.jpeg

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7 hours ago, 20Hz said:

I think it's like when you say a word too many times, it starts to sound wrong. like chipmunk. 

 

I think you're right.  The lower case letters and the space before the "?" contribute to the illusion.

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