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Value of Belle Klipsch other questions.


kink56

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There was a mod presented on this forum you could do to the LS by extending and porting on its bottom, perhaps this technique may also be applied to the Belle...not sure how it would look though? I believe it got the LS down to 35hz in the right room

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11 hours ago, consistent said:

There was a mod presented on this forum you could do to the LS by extending and porting on its bottom, perhaps this technique may also be applied to the Belle...not sure how it would look though? I believe it got the LS down to 35hz in the right room

To risk my first demerit this is nuts. Porting a folded horn will have unintended consequences. I would just add a small M&K or other sealed sub crossed over at 50-80 hz depending on the room and Belle placement. My 12 inch sealed sub has been in storage since 2010.

 

I maybe miss a sub on 2% of my music library. Classical music featuring powerful groovy organ. Some progressive rock perhaps at times as well.

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14 hours ago, kink56 said:

Well  I bought them

Congrats, one suggestion and maybe you already know this.  Give them a lesson for about six months before you try and mods.  Please feel free to post some pics once you received them and have them set up in your room.

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On 3/8/2018 at 10:22 PM, USNRET said:

ROOM, ROOM, ROOM
My beloved Belles fell short in this house
New KHorns didn't work (even with enclosed backs)

Cornwall IIIs are working pretty darn good

What would Forte IIIs do? I wonder.

Room and amplification. My inference is people who perceive Belle's as bass shy never heard them with VRD or other quality tube amplification. My long wall is 24 feet and my back wall is 50% plus open minimizing reflections.

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Is anyone here familiar with ENTEC subwoofers? They stopped making them in the 90s.  I never seem to run across anyone at any audio forum that has them.  They are fast enough to mate with electrostatics.  They are a servo design by the same people who made Spectral amps and preamps.  They are clean, fast and powerful. But most of all they are musical. My friend has an M&K and I would describe it as a good woofer, but NOT as a good subwoofer!  I use my subwoofer with any and all speakers I have ever owned including my Forte Is. The Fortes are never described as needing a subwoofer, but they certainly are greatly enhanced with a good one. A less that stellar subwoofer is worse than no subwoofer in my opinion which are subject to overhang, bloat and boominess.  And home theatre subwoofers generally are not all that musical.  

I will take pictures went I get things set up.

 

I am not going to do any extensive mods, even though I am aware of the extent I could go. I will do the crossovers and the very most, I will replace the tweeters, but only if after doing the crossovers does not satisfy me. I expect they will. 

 

Here is a picture of a stereo pair. I have only one however.  They were about $3,000 new each back in 1984, I could only afford one.  Other than refoaming the surrounds, mine has served me without fail for 38 years. I also have two other models, the L-F10 and the L-F20. I wish I had a pair of L-F30s to tell you the truth, judging by the performance of my single L-F20. My LF-20 is also pictured in the next post. They have a much deeper cabinet than the SW-1.  

Entec .jpg

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Unfortunately when most people offer these for sale, they have lost the passive crossover box (pictured on top of the L-F20 above) and the 4 pin XLR cable that connects them.   I surmise they remove the subwoofer leaving the box somewhere in their stereo setup forgotten. Or they throw it away not recognizing or remembering what it is for.    This often happens to preamps with separate power supplies or transformers!   The crossover adjusts the satellite crossover point which is dependent on the power amp's input impedance.  It also has a 0 or 180 phase switch and a volume control. Interestingly, in any room, with any system, regardless of placement, I find the 180 setting yields the best, deepest and fastest bass.   The subwoofer has a built-in 100hz crossover and it also has a switch for "left" "right" or "sum" in the case of using a stereo pair or a mono sub. It also has an adjustable  notch filter to counter your particular room's resonance frequency.   This is the ONLY component I have never changed since 1985. And without it in my system is like cake without frosting. 

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Supposed to be arriving today. If not today, then Monday.  I have hardwood floors. I am thinking of installing castors on the risers as to make moving them and positioning them in my room easier than just putting furniture "gliders" under them. Any downsides to this? 

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Well I got them and am listening to them now.  They integrate with my subwoofers just fine.  They are clearer than my Forte I (with Crites x-overs and Ti tweeters).   These Belles are all original electronics wise, except for Sonicaps on original crossovers.  I will get used to them before I install the Crites C120 tweeters and A55-G drivers to make sure they end up being actually an improvement.  

 

They image fine, except for height, similar to the Fortes in that respect.   But they are freakin' beautiful. VERY nice work and great choice of veneer. 

 

I will take pictures tomorrow to show off my inadequate living room. 

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14 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Well the tweeters are fried, so I installed the C120s right away. Here they are:

The Belles look nice! 

 

Your previous post was 15 hours ago and you said you were going to get the CT-120's but you already have them installed.  Did you order a week ago?  If you did, great anticipation.

 

 

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The seller says he has had customers with extensive mods in the speakers he relaminates and he can't hear a difference between before and after. He is not an audiophile.  If you don't know what to listen for, you probably won't hear a difference.

 

Well they did not sound as "airy" as my Fortes, so I unplugged the tweeters in the Belles and measured the DCR and got 0.  So, they are blown ,no continuity. 

I was going to live with the stock drivers for a week before I installed the new ones, but once I discovered that the tweeters were shot, I changed them out. Changing out the mid drivers only takes 5 minutes, so it is easier to change them back and forth than interconnects! (I don't have to move any components like I would with interconnects). 

 

The C120s are working great.   Yes, I DID order the C120s soon after I paid for the Belles, in anticipation.   I am also experimenting with the stock K-55-Vs and the replacement A-55G.  The 55G is smoother, but it is not a "Klipsch" sound, it is too recessed.  I think I like the stock K-55V better, even though it is a bit ragged in comparison. I CAN hear quite a difference between the stock squawkers and the A-55G. I am just not sure which I prefer yet.  

 

Now the question is shall I keep the stock AA crossover (well, not stock as it has replacement Sonicaps) or get the ALK Universal crossover?   The phone number ALK gave me states it is out of service when I called, so there's that. He answered my emails last week (how I got his phone number in the first place).

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There's a pair of early 70's Belles that were listed today in Little Rock with cane grills for $2500. Not sure they would have shipped, though. But I doubt you would have liked the "stock " veneer. For a thousand bucks, I would have personally delivered them to you...plus expenses of course. You'd still be ahead of the game and money in pocket.  ;)

 

https://littlerock.craigslist.org/ele/d/klipsch-belles/6533634871.html

 

 

 

 

00000_5IJ6EHxiUC2_600x450.jpg

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Yep $1000 for you to deliver, plus expenses PLUS the cost of having them reveenered.  Well as it turns out, had I done that, I would have never bothered to have them reveenered, because the sad news for me:

 

I never understood the objection to the sound of Klipsch based on the fact I really like my Forte I. But NOW I get it!   The Belles have several problems.

1. They have a bass resonance, you cannot hear the cabinets per se, but you can hear the effect they have on music. Sometimes drum sound like cardboard boxes for example .

2. They ARE "shouty" in the midrange. Not only that, they are also "chesty" and "hooded".   As a singer goes up and down the scales, they go from chesty to nasal. And I do not mean that it is the characteristic of the singer, as ALL the vocals I have auditioned do this. It is frequency dependent. It matters not whether I am using the original mid drivers or the new 55-Gs.  

3. Acoustic instruments change in size depending on frequency.  An acoustic guitar does not hang in the soundstage in its natural size, instead it grows to gigantic proportions in the lower registers and shrinks back down in the higher registers.  Sometimes the guitar body seems 20 feet long. 

 

I have to say these are the worst sounding speakers I have ever owned based on "audiophile" criteria.  Now if you want to ROCK OUT, then hey, they are great.  But the "sweet spot" reveals a host of severe problems as it comes to reproducing music.  Give me my Rogers Studio 1As any day. Yes, and even my Forte Is trounce these Belles in just about every department.  They are a fine piece of furniture that happen to have speakers built in.  Much like (but not as bad) as those expensive console stereos of the 60s. (We called them "sound coffins" back in the day).

 

While it is true that great speakers will reveal weaknesses in the audio chain, top notch electronics will also expose greater differences in speakers as well. 

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