Deang Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I’m curious about loading. B&C shows the de-120 mounted to a much larger horn. Anyone have an opinion on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Deang said: I’m curious about loading. B&C shows the de-120 mounted to a much larger horn. Anyone have an opinion on this? Funny you mention this Dean. I have a set of KP-250 II's on hand right now and the tweeter footprint is the same as the Chorus but the horn lens itself is much shallower and a tractix type and would lend itself well to being machined from Aluminum. It has me really thinking hard about doing these too in the near future. The nice thing is with this horn size and much more generous clearances inside the cabinets the options really open up. Using nutserts on the motorboard with the strength of the aluminum you could easily hang an Eminence ASD1001 in there with no fear. Now just what is to big for that size horn lens I don't know insofar as output is concerned but the strength would be there for a wide variety of drivers. That price tag on the ASD1001 is pretty nice to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 If the horn is too small, then the compression driver won’t load properly, which will cause distortion. I’m using an eliptrac “horn” on my de-120’s and it sounds fine - but I don’t listen very loud either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 There is a 2" Ti diaphragm driver on the midrange horn of this KP-250 II choked down to 1" outlet and it sounds somewhat bright and harsh and I wonder if it is a bit overwhelming to the horn. It is as Klipsch designed it so I don't know if it's design or another problem. What size is your horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 The diaphragms are always larger than the driver exit. That is what makes them compression drivers - the air between the diaphragm and exit is compressed, increasing efficiency, compared to regular direct radiator, where no compression takes place. Jubilee, khorn, la scalas, have somehat a compression chamber, and with the bass horn, also increases efficiency. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Do you have adaptor plates that can mount Klipsch K77 round alnico or square magnet type drivers? I would imagine some with internally mounted tweeters would want to simply upgrade to a flush mount plus enjoy the benefits of tractrix. I would do that on both my corns and lascalas. But I would want to keep the Klipsch drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Dave, Are you planning anything like this for a klipschorn? And any plans for a midrange horn? Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: Dave, Are you planning anything like this for a klipschorn? And any plans for a midrange horn? Thx I believe the following list is correct according to the serial number codex on the forum. These will fit anything the K-77's go in to which would be Heresy I, Cornwall I, La Scalas, Belles and KHorns. Also looking to do something with the larger tweeters in Forte I and II, Heresy II, Cornwall II, and Chorus I and II. Anyone with exact knowledge of tweeter lens sizes feel free to comment here. Some of these I have never had so some double checking will be needed to have a comprehensive list. Some time later this year I am looking at the idea of getting in to making wood horns that would be for the mid range sizes. Thinking about using something like maple butcher blocks or table tops or oak truck flooring glued to the right thickness and then machining them out as any shape the endmill can reach I can do. I like the solidity of these laminated blocks and think they might be pretty stained and since they are what they are I don't have to worry about hand selecting top grade huge hardwood ($$$) chunks to match exacting wood grain patterns. I might also do wood in tweeter lenses if I can find screw anchors I trust to be permanent for the clamp plate to body connection. If I do the mid range horn they will also have clamp plates so a variety of drivers can be used. I really like the idea of being able to move sideways without throwing away everything and starting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 An update on these. I never dreamed it would take this long and along the way adding to the mix are variations which then have to be tested. The very latest one and the one I believe will test the best of them all was one I did not know how to make with my CAD design software until a few weeks ago. It is simple things that can trip you up and with software as complex as Solid Edge there are times where you struggle to figure things out. I did not really want to share design data so it was left to slogging through the learning curve to get to a final destination as time permitted. Using a surfacing part of the program called Bluesurf I had been able to generate things like the straight wall elliptrac type lens. I can see why perhaps they stopped there since it is much easier to do design wise. What I wanted was the ability to produce either concave or convex walls and when I finally figured it out it was like a whole new world of possibilities opened up. Claude has been gracious enough to agree to test these things as I have the equipment and software now to do so but no idea how to do it and he does and some great test vehicles to put them in. Rather than put a couple of versions out there I am waiting to see which one is the very best and go with it. It may turn out that some drivers work better with one lens or the other. What my goal is however is to make one that is clearly the best and I think we are there. Testing is ongoing and I figure a week or so more will have the final answers. I am pretty certain this one shown will be it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Impressive. Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Absolutely stunning work! Just beautiful. Tip of the cap to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 --- excellent machining - Germanic worthy -- + - .005mm ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 13 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Here's the composite a 1/24th octave resolution with the DE-120 driver at 1 Meter. The Convex is clearly smoother and has a nice rolloff after 10 Khz.off-axis. The top Green is the Convex on Axis, the middle Green is the Convex at 30 degrees, and the Purple Bottom trace is the Convex at 45 degrees. You should ONLY look at what is above 5-6 Khz in all cases. VERY smooth on the convex. I suspect the convex may be still the winner sonically, but they are BOTH still very good. We are splitting hairs here a bit and the original flat Ellipse 'aint no slouch either!! BTW, I can't hear a thing above 12-13 Khz., so I put the vertical line at 15 khz to show that anything to the right of that is less significant, except maybe for 12 year old girls (like my daughters before they attended concerts) with perfect hearing. The middle curves are the most significant because we toe-in our speakers and listen mostly to the off-axis response in the real world! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 OK one of the big holdups for these horns was me wanting to offer threaded adapter plates for 1 3/8" 18 TPI drivers out there. While I could manually tap these I wanted to mill these threads on the CNC mill instead. One thing leads to another and finally last night I got all the pieces of the puzzle together. "Machined Horn Lens" will finally be on EBay next week and I will have an "experimenters" kit with the horn lens and the DE110 and 120 on one clamp plate and the threaded on another so you will get both sets. PM me for further info or look online next week. I have used the APT50 on a set of La Scala LSI's and even though they were not the "good" ones I have to tell you the difference was astounding. The shrill went away entirely and with the AA crossovers which I used I could bypass the Zeners since protection was no longer needed. These APT50's are the bargain of the day. There are also threaded drivers from Beyma and JBL small enough to fit although I have no experience to know how they would sound. At least there is a choice now on additional flavors for those who have inquiring minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockhound Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Very impressive Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 These are now live on EBay under MAHL or Machined Aluminum Horn Lens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Dave A said: These are now live on EBay under MAHL or Machined Aluminum Horn Lens I put MAHL and Machined Aluminum Horn Lens in the e-bay search box and saw the add for the Chorus only. Nothing else came up. EDIT, so much came up under MAHL that I didn't have time to sort through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Thanks for looking. Maybe I should have put K-77 and or K-79 in there to bring it to the top which I now have. I guess it is an indicator that the volume of things listed rapidly buries you. When I listed I searched after listing for MAHL it was right at the top so I figured it was all good. Strange I just tried MAHL and mahl and there they were on the first page. I am using Firefox but I don't imagine that makes much if a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Dave A said: Thanks for looking. Maybe I should have put K-77 and or K-79 in there to bring it to the top which I now have. I guess it is an indicator that the volume of things listed rapidly buries you. When I listed I searched after listing for MAHL it was right at the top so I figured it was all good. Strange I just tried MAHL and mahl and there they were on the first page. I am using Firefox but I don't imagine that makes much if a difference. 63'rd item from the top. I didn't look that far down the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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