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Anti- Intellectualism


oldtimer

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9 hours ago, YK Thom said:

as someone once said there is nothing new under the sun

 

 

It was Solomon who said that:

 

What has been will be again

What has been done will be done again;

There is nothing new under the sun ...

 

There is no remembrance of men of old

and even those who are yet to come

will not be remembered by those who follow.

 

It has been argued repeatedly that Solomon was a theistic existentialist.  I don’t remember where I first read it, but it may have been in The Existential Imagination, a book I have lost.

 

Existentialism exists (no pun intended) in many forms, including atheistic, deistic, and theistic, as well as on the part of existentialists who don’t  go there.  Since existentialism is an umbrella over differing views, there is disagreement as to who was and who was not.  Was Kierkegaard  an existentialist, or just a forerunner?  How about Solomon, who was writing about  2,760 years before?  Perhaps he was correct in saying, “there is nothing new under the sun.”

 

According to the Old Testament, Solomon was a theist, a believer in a personal God.   Ecclesiastes is a typically existential encounter with perceived meaningless.   But it also contains a return from despair.  Solomon cites the rhythms of nature (and the like) as providing meaning, and, famously, “to everything there is a season.” 

 

“Emptiness, emptiness … all is empty …. I have seen all the deeds that are done … they are all emptiness and chasing the wind …I have applied my mind to understand wisdom and knowledge, madness and folly, and … this too is chasing the wind.  For in much wisdom is much vexation, and the more a man knows, the more he has to suffer.” 

 

It’s probably no accident that many novel and movie titles are quotes from Solomon … The Earth Abides … He that disturbs his own house shall Inherit the WindThe Sun Also Rises, etc. 

 

If I was forced to put the central controlling idea of Solomon's  Ecclesiastes into a few words, they might be, “Love God, and go with the flow.”

 

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Great post one of those things that slipped my ever aging mind on a Sunday. Too many many fumes from cleaning products as we prepare for Pesach. A few bevies to assist with the process as well.My Rabbi would smack me in the head for forgetting this.

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We had to study this in high school.  Let me say it did not seem like wisdom and still does not.

 

A lot of this seems like clinical depression. If there is shipwreck and recovery, isn't that a manic depressive condition.

 

WMcD

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A shipwreck happens due to either incompetence of seamanship or bad luck with weather.  A rogue wave can cause a shipwreck.  Recovery implies rehabbing the ship that has been wrecked.  So if one recovers from a wreck, by let's say, a righting of the ship, how exactly is that comparable to manic depression?  Manic is descriptive of extreme back and forth swings.  Are you saying that the "this" you postulate is analogous of multiple wrecks and repairs?  Maybe as one experienced in sailing I am too close to get what you are saying, so that is why I request a more fleshed out explanation.

 

Also, I have a close relative with bipolar tendencies, further perplexing my understanding of what you are trying to say.

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On 3/9/2018 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

Was it because of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, brothels, smut or what?

I'm curious what your thoughts are.

 

I haven't personally dived into it very deeply, but some historian friends of mine that I highly respect will speak to moral cycles that tend to line up with the coming and going of civilizations...Correlation or Causation? Perhaps the religious zealots have ulterior motives, but I think there's something to it.

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1 hour ago, DrWho said:

I'm curious what your thoughts are.

 

I haven't personally dived into it very deeply, but some historian friends of mine that I highly respect will speak to moral cycles that tend to line up with the coming and going of civilizations...Correlation or Causation? Perhaps the religious zealots have ulterior motives, but I think there's something to it.

Maybe there is something to it.  Empires are built for one purpose - making money.  If people refocus their efforts on pleasure, instead of money, it might be harder to maintain the empire.

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On 3/10/2018 at 3:03 AM, garyrc said:

although it is possible to be a person of letters and a politician, rare though they are.

I think it's popular to criticize politicians, but all of the ones I've interacted with are incredibly intellectual people. The problem is we usually only see them through the lens of media, which offers a very manipulated perspective to drive ratings through a manufactured social rhetoric.

 

Try hanging out with some politicians in person, or watch them work on non-campaign issues. They're an incredibly intellectual lot.

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32 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Empires are built for one purpose - making money.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

I think there's more to life than "making money" or "focusing on pleasure".... I think they are byproducts of living a more fulfilling life.

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16 hours ago, garyrc said:

If I was forced to put the central controlling idea of Solomon's  Ecclesiastes into a few words, they might be, “Love God, and go with the flow.”

Brilliant...Hadn't really put "The Preacher" and Lao Tzu together like that before, but it works nicely. I had noted, and written about, Lao Tzu's "The softest thing in the universe overcomes the hardest thing in the universe" and "...my strength is made perfect in weakness." from II Corinthians. 

Haven't gone back enough to see if there are any yellow flags...this is a great thread and I really like it. There is a fine line between discussing religion in terms of general philosophy and purely as religion. I see it, and no problem (IMHO) here. Don't let it go south, however.

 

Dave

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On 3/8/2018 at 3:06 PM, cincymat said:

The internet connects all, instantly. Universal access gives everyone an equal voice. So, I ask how are we to tell who are the intellectuals? The ones who shout the loudest? The ones who post the most? The ones who have to most followers? The ones who seem the most outrageous? The ones who are good at inciting online angst? 

 

Simple: The ones who make the most sense. It is the person receiving the information who bestows equality or inequality on the information they receive, not the people transmitting it. If a receiver of information cannot tell the difference between an opinion or thought that is based on a knowledge of the facts and an understanding of history versus one that is based on fear, hysteria and an ignorance of history (willful or not), the problem lies with the person receiving the information, not with those transmitting it.

 

Just because there are twenty voices loudly shouting doesn't mean that all (or any) of them deserve our attention. It is up to each of us to exercise critical thinking when deciding what information to consume.

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On 3/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, Mallette said:

Brilliant...Hadn't really put "The Preacher" and Lao Tzu together like that before, but it works nicely. I had noted, and written about, Lao Tzu's "The softest thing in the universe overcomes the hardest thing in the universe" and "...my strength is made perfect in weakness." from II Corinthians. 

Haven't gone back enough to see if there are any yellow flags...this is a great thread and I really like it. There is a fine line between discussing religion in terms of general philosophy and purely as religion. I see it, and no problem (IMHO) here. Don't let it go south, however.

 

Dave

 

Yes, "going with the flow" is a method of dealing with what may seem like meaninglessness.  Thus, "To everything there is a season ' ... "A Time to Live and a Time to Die," and the other 13 sayings structured that way.  Didn't Lao Tzu talk about letting every stone roll down its hill? 

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