garyrc Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 9 hours ago, YK Thom said: as someone once said there is nothing new under the sun It was Solomon who said that: What has been will be again What has been done will be done again; There is nothing new under the sun ... There is no remembrance of men of old and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow. It has been argued repeatedly that Solomon was a theistic existentialist. I don’t remember where I first read it, but it may have been in The Existential Imagination, a book I have lost. Existentialism exists (no pun intended) in many forms, including atheistic, deistic, and theistic, as well as on the part of existentialists who don’t go there. Since existentialism is an umbrella over differing views, there is disagreement as to who was and who was not. Was Kierkegaard an existentialist, or just a forerunner? How about Solomon, who was writing about 2,760 years before? Perhaps he was correct in saying, “there is nothing new under the sun.” According to the Old Testament, Solomon was a theist, a believer in a personal God. Ecclesiastes is a typically existential encounter with perceived meaningless. But it also contains a return from despair. Solomon cites the rhythms of nature (and the like) as providing meaning, and, famously, “to everything there is a season.” “Emptiness, emptiness … all is empty …. I have seen all the deeds that are done … they are all emptiness and chasing the wind …I have applied my mind to understand wisdom and knowledge, madness and folly, and … this too is chasing the wind. For in much wisdom is much vexation, and the more a man knows, the more he has to suffer.” It’s probably no accident that many novel and movie titles are quotes from Solomon … The Earth Abides … He that disturbs his own house shall Inherit the Wind …The Sun Also Rises, etc. If I was forced to put the central controlling idea of Solomon's Ecclesiastes into a few words, they might be, “Love God, and go with the flow.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 Kierkegaard was a leaper (of faith)....hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK Thom Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Great post one of those things that slipped my ever aging mind on a Sunday. Too many many fumes from cleaning products as we prepare for Pesach. A few bevies to assist with the process as well.My Rabbi would smack me in the head for forgetting this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 We had to study this in high school. Let me say it did not seem like wisdom and still does not. A lot of this seems like clinical depression. If there is shipwreck and recovery, isn't that a manic depressive condition. WMcD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 This? Please elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 A shipwreck happens due to either incompetence of seamanship or bad luck with weather. A rogue wave can cause a shipwreck. Recovery implies rehabbing the ship that has been wrecked. So if one recovers from a wreck, by let's say, a righting of the ship, how exactly is that comparable to manic depression? Manic is descriptive of extreme back and forth swings. Are you saying that the "this" you postulate is analogous of multiple wrecks and repairs? Maybe as one experienced in sailing I am too close to get what you are saying, so that is why I request a more fleshed out explanation. Also, I have a close relative with bipolar tendencies, further perplexing my understanding of what you are trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 3/9/2018 at 8:07 PM, Jeff Matthews said: They have everything we lack, of course. Haven't you been paying attention to the ads? Do they? I hadn't noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 3/9/2018 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Matthews said: Was it because of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, brothels, smut or what? I'm curious what your thoughts are. I haven't personally dived into it very deeply, but some historian friends of mine that I highly respect will speak to moral cycles that tend to line up with the coming and going of civilizations...Correlation or Causation? Perhaps the religious zealots have ulterior motives, but I think there's something to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, DrWho said: I'm curious what your thoughts are. I haven't personally dived into it very deeply, but some historian friends of mine that I highly respect will speak to moral cycles that tend to line up with the coming and going of civilizations...Correlation or Causation? Perhaps the religious zealots have ulterior motives, but I think there's something to it. Maybe there is something to it. Empires are built for one purpose - making money. If people refocus their efforts on pleasure, instead of money, it might be harder to maintain the empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 3/10/2018 at 3:03 AM, garyrc said: although it is possible to be a person of letters and a politician, rare though they are. I think it's popular to criticize politicians, but all of the ones I've interacted with are incredibly intellectual people. The problem is we usually only see them through the lens of media, which offers a very manipulated perspective to drive ratings through a manufactured social rhetoric. Try hanging out with some politicians in person, or watch them work on non-campaign issues. They're an incredibly intellectual lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Empires are built for one purpose - making money. I'm not sure I agree with that. I think there's more to life than "making money" or "focusing on pleasure".... I think they are byproducts of living a more fulfilling life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 hours ago, garyrc said: If I was forced to put the central controlling idea of Solomon's Ecclesiastes into a few words, they might be, “Love God, and go with the flow.” Brilliant...Hadn't really put "The Preacher" and Lao Tzu together like that before, but it works nicely. I had noted, and written about, Lao Tzu's "The softest thing in the universe overcomes the hardest thing in the universe" and "...my strength is made perfect in weakness." from II Corinthians. Haven't gone back enough to see if there are any yellow flags...this is a great thread and I really like it. There is a fine line between discussing religion in terms of general philosophy and purely as religion. I see it, and no problem (IMHO) here. Don't let it go south, however. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, DrWho said: I'm not sure I agree with that. I think there's more to life than "making money" or "focusing on pleasure".... I think they are byproducts of living a more fulfilling life. What other reason, besides making money, do nations try to control the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 hours ago, oldtimer said: This? Please elaborate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Anti- Intellectualism Perhaps it is the endless discussion of created topics where no one can "win" except the bored guy who starts it all and keeps the pot stirred. There are hobbies for all sorts I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 In the context of this wonderful discussion on existentialism, anti-intellectualism, religious zealots with ulterior motives, moral cycles that correlate with the rise and fall of nations, and all that other socio-political-economic good stuff, I'll submit for your pleasure The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 hours ago, WMcD said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis Gotcha. No hockey on tv tonight, now that's a crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsosdrummer Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 3/8/2018 at 3:06 PM, cincymat said: The internet connects all, instantly. Universal access gives everyone an equal voice. So, I ask how are we to tell who are the intellectuals? The ones who shout the loudest? The ones who post the most? The ones who have to most followers? The ones who seem the most outrageous? The ones who are good at inciting online angst? Simple: The ones who make the most sense. It is the person receiving the information who bestows equality or inequality on the information they receive, not the people transmitting it. If a receiver of information cannot tell the difference between an opinion or thought that is based on a knowledge of the facts and an understanding of history versus one that is based on fear, hysteria and an ignorance of history (willful or not), the problem lies with the person receiving the information, not with those transmitting it. Just because there are twenty voices loudly shouting doesn't mean that all (or any) of them deserve our attention. It is up to each of us to exercise critical thinking when deciding what information to consume. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 3/12/2018 at 11:37 AM, Mallette said: Brilliant...Hadn't really put "The Preacher" and Lao Tzu together like that before, but it works nicely. I had noted, and written about, Lao Tzu's "The softest thing in the universe overcomes the hardest thing in the universe" and "...my strength is made perfect in weakness." from II Corinthians. Haven't gone back enough to see if there are any yellow flags...this is a great thread and I really like it. There is a fine line between discussing religion in terms of general philosophy and purely as religion. I see it, and no problem (IMHO) here. Don't let it go south, however. Dave Yes, "going with the flow" is a method of dealing with what may seem like meaninglessness. Thus, "To everything there is a season ' ... "A Time to Live and a Time to Die," and the other 13 sayings structured that way. Didn't Lao Tzu talk about letting every stone roll down its hill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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