JJkizak Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Nowadays a lot of subjects are being automatically categorically "culted" without any factual data. Typically the loss of jobs. For instance in the 1960's GM used almost 70% more people to manufacture the same amount of automobiles that they do now and the reason why is robots. The steel industry manufactures the same amount of steel now as 30 years ago with less than half the people because of robots and downsizing. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Excellent. Yes it is thinking, perhaps even described as trained. 1 minute ago, cincymat said: It's all in a sentence. I think you're a bright guy but, for the comments you write here. You do see how the but negates the preceding praise? Questions aren't meant to provide an answers. They are meant to help find answers. Isn’t intellectualism a trained way of thinking? Sorry, more questions. Finding an answer is the point. Plus, it can expose the truth, as bsm relates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 talk to yourself ....hear what you want to know.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, cincymat said: It's all in a sentence. I think you're a bright guy but, for the comments you write here. You do see how the but negates the preceding praise? Questions aren't meant to provide an answers. They are meant to help find answers. Isn’t intellectualism a trained way of thinking? Sorry, more questions. Also, while I care about what you think, I don't care about what you think of me. The reverse is anti-intellectual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Thanks Gilbert. That's a beautiful self portrait. 17 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Spurned again! Oldie, you are the Spurn-inator! Seriously, to have an open, or intelligent discussion on any subject, requires open minds. Clearly, and intuitively, people who willing pass judgement on a whole, but demonstrate a lack of understanding and/or experience on the subject, are clearly not the open minded type. Perhaps, if Oldie had rephrased his question, I would be willing to take him as being serious..... for now, I'll just say, "schau dir nummer sechs an". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Gilbert, now that you count yourself amongst the open minded, how would you reprhrase the question? This mind is open to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Also, while I care about what you think, I don't care about what you think of me. The reverse is anti-intellectual. I only think the best of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Gilbert, now that you count yourself amongst the open minded, how would you reprhrase the question? This mind is open to it. That's way too easy.... what would be more challenging, and make for better discussion, is how you determined and why you believe there are over 320,000,000 American's who are anti-intellectual. You started this thread without offering your own insite. Some might call that trolling, I tend to think of it as being insincere. EDIT: On some things, most things, I think, I can consider myself open minded; but I'm only human, and have my mind closed on many issues involving morality and to a lesser extent, religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 So you disagree that there is a common thread of anti-intellectualism present today? Or is it just you and I and a few thousand others who respect intellectualism? Therefore my original statement would stand given overwhelming numbers. Is everything completely literal to you that a simple qualification of ' "most" is needed? Or is it only necessary when you want to disagree based on the person making the statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldtimer said: So you disagree that there is a common thread of anti-intellectualism present today? Or is it just you and I and a few thousand others who respect intellectualism? Therefore my original statement would stand given overwhelming numbers. Is everything completely literal to you that a simple qualification of ' "most" is needed? Or is it only necessary when you want to disagree based on the person making the statement? believe in nothing that you here.. and half of what you read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, dirtmudd said: believe in nothing that you here.. and half of what you read Were you raised by my mother? That’s her favorite saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 So, if you want to smoke me out, here it is. And I welcome comments and counter theories, especially those without ad hominems. The 70s were an economic disaster with price and wage freezes, inflation, and stagflation. People were losing their butts in tbe stock market. We had lots of experts providing opinions and solutions and our leaders always seermed to choose the worst ones. After Volker decided to squash inflation expectations, by raising rates to the roof, it caused even more pain but finally worked. By 83, things were looking up. Most, not all, (just for you gilbert) had enough of the pain that hurt the working man the hardest, that making money again became the focus. Bills have to be paid. Tired of expert opinions, which were often wrong, people (for gilberts sake most) judt wanted to make money. Wall Street skyrocketed, investors were getting rich again, greed was good, so good it became glorified in popular culture. Thoughts, ideas, mattered far less than how much money do you make? We (most of us gilbert) didn't care about anything that did not make money. Philosophy became a luxury, even in the richest country in the world( at least top ten gilbert). Buying up going concerns, laying off all of the workers and selling off the pieces became an art form. Because it was easy money. College was simply a means to learn skills to make money instead of providing a broad based education. The intellectual became a dying breed. If it is alive and well, please point me in their direction. People who weigh all sides and come to conclusions bereft of preconceived certitudes. Where are the Faulkners of our times? The Buckleys? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Not to make light of the on-going conversation, but these three items are to blame as much as anything.....seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Love,that song. From a great lp. Zevon's lyrics were raw, yet had an underlying intellectualism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Thank you for sharing you thoughts. Having lived through the time period you so aptly described I can see your point of view. It was easy to pursue material things after experiencing the lack of them. So much so that the pursuit became the meaning of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 You youngsters just continue to debate. Older people like me have better things to do with our time. We're still chasing women before it's too late. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, cincymat said: Were you raised by my mother? That’s her favorite saying. did your mother never lied too you..... and made sure you that you did the right thing... kids and people or adults are programmed by the tv and internet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, dirtmudd said: did your mother never lied too you..... and made sure you that you did the right thing... kids and people or adults are programmed by the tv and internet... My Mother always told me the truth. Especially when I didn’t want to hear it. She tried her best to make sure I did the right thing. Unfortunately, she taught me to question things and I applied that by questioning if the right things were truly right. She didn’t always appreciate my application of her teachings. Anyway, I think, part of the demise of intellectualism is the lack of questioning the information we are presented. And the respect we gave those brave enough to appreciate both sides of an argument. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Love,that song. From a great lp. Zevon's lyrics were raw, yet had an underlying intellectualism. Absolutely true. Great songwriter and person lost way too soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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