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Integrated amps w/ tone controls and mono switch


ODS123

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 Looking at Stereophiles latest "500 Recommended Components" I was struck by how few of the recommended Integrated Amplifiers have tone controls and next to none of them have a mono mode.  ..And some don't even have a balance control.  WTH?

 

I much prefer integrated amps these days.   ..Fewer cables means fewer connections; fewer connections means fewer opportunities for grounding and hum/buzz issues.  There may have been a time that separates made sense but I think that day has passed.  My most recent separates were a Bryston 3BSST amp and BP25 pre, and its noise floor and signal bleed (hearing one input on another) was higher than every integrated I've ever had.  Plus, as much of my music is the product of rather imperfect recording techniques, I insist on having simple tone controls (bass/treble), mono switch and a balance control. The argument against these controls has been that they deteriorate the signal, but I believe this to be a myth. ..Usually, they're left at zero doing no harm, but when listening to an overly dull or bright album, or if my dishes are rattling in the cupboards, I find a slight tweaking of one or both to be enough to make the song more enjoyable. And Mono??  Absolutely indispensable when listening to old music that dates back to when Stereo mixing was misunderstood - like old Beatles music where the music comes out of one speaker and voices from the other.  ..Listening to mono is way better than poorly mixed stereo.  

 

I think gear mfgs. want us to believe that eschewing these basic features keeps the signal "purer" but I think this is nonensense (ever see a mixing board used to make our some of our "audiophile approved" music?  ..Literally hundreds of signal breaks).  Fewer controls/ switches just means less engineering/ mfg. expense.  ..Am I alone in thinking this?

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I don't agree with almost everything... except for the idea that integrated amplifiers are much Better than they used to be.

But one thing is certain, there is enough equipment for every listener to build a system that they personally can love and feel satisfied with.

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2 hours ago, Schu said:

 

But one thing is certain, there is enough equipment for every listener to build a system that they personally can love and feel satisfied with.

 

Well, not if the listener wants tone/balance/mono controls.  That's my point.  ..As far I'm aware  nowadays only McIntosh, Luxman, Accuphase, and Anthem offer all of these and these brands are prohibitively expensive for most people.   I miss the days when pretty much all integrateds had these features.  

 

I guess I miss the Golden Days of Audio :(  My dad had this integrated.

 

5aa3fde3b5400_ScreenShot2018-03-10at10_45_21AM.png.05962317dbc0836b83a367953f2269d0.png

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3 hours ago, ODS123 said:

I much prefer integrated amps these days.

So do I.  Simple solution with perfectly "matched" preamp/amp and those tone controls.  Don't use mono too often but I can see how it would be useful.

 

Image result for Yamaha A-S1000

Image result for cambridge Audio 640A

 

Bill

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7 minutes ago, Rivernuggets said:

Emotiva has their TA-100. Tone, Balance, Mute, and Mono.

 

Looks to be a great choice (great build quality for the price!!)  but unfortunately the MONO button is only for the tuner.  ..I actually researched buying this for a bedroom system.  

 

From the manual:  

"Note: The Mono/St setting ONLY affects stereo FM broadcasts. It does NOT convert other types of stereo audio inputs on the TA-100 to monaural."

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9 minutes ago, willland said:

Maybe try this work around.

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2975.0

 

Bill

 

Could definitely be a solution for someone wanting to add a mono switch to their system. 

 

One of the ageless arguments for NO tone/ Bal or Mono control is the idea that it shortens the signal path, reduces the number of breaks and keeps the signal purer. But this seems like total nonsense to me. Check out this pic of the mixing board Donald Fagen used in mixing "The Nightly" - an album roundly praised for its sound quality. If literally hundreds of sliders, switches, and pots didn't ruin the signal when recording this incredible sounding album in the studio then having tone/ balance/ mono controls on our integrated amps (or pre-amps) won't do an iota of damage to the signal in our home systems.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-03-10 at 12.08.11 PM.png

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Check out this pic of the mixing board Donald Fagen used in mixing "The Nightly" - an album roundly praised for its sound quality. If literally hundreds of sliders, switches, and pots didn't ruin the signal when recording this incredible sounding album in the studio then having tone/ balance/ mono controls on our integrated amps (or pre-amps) won't do an iota of damage to the signal in our home systems.

That has been my argument since forever.  Nothing but tone controls x 1000.

 

Bill

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Just now, Deang said:

@willland How does that Yammy stack up against the Luxman R-117 (power aside)?

 

I've been eyeing the AS-2000.

Wow, never thought about the two in comparison.  Different rooms, different speakers.  The Yamaha has only driven Reference speakers while the Luxman had Heresy and Quartet duty only.

 

If I had to give it a try(from memory with the R-117), I would say that the Yamaha is definitely dead center neutral and more "accurate" tonally with good bass drive for my RB-75's and my RF-63's.  Very good dynamics for "only" 90w/ch@8ohms.  On the other hand the Luxman has some serious stones down where it counts and a touch more "warmness" in the midrange and very detailed.  

 

The A-S2000 is said to be a bit more refined with a few more discrete parts and larger power caps(4 x 24,000uF vs 4 x 18,000uF).  Both have bipolar output transistors so tonally they should be similar.

 

Bill

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8 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Looks to be a great choice (great build quality for the price!!)  but unfortunately the MONO button is only for the tuner.  ..I actually researched buying this for a bedroom system.  

Thanks, I just learned something about my PT-100. I rarely use Mono.   

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On 3/10/2018 at 10:36 AM, Rivernuggets said:

Parasound's Halo Integrated doesn't have a Mono option. It has Tone, Balance, and Mute though.

 

Emotiva has their TA-100. Tone, Balance, Mute, and Mono.

Great specs on the Emo, wonder how it sounds.....

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11 hours ago, YK Thom said:

I dont really have a huge desire for mono but tone controls are essential; I wouldn’t even consider an amp integrated or otherwise, without them.

 

 

Not to be contrary, but I wouldn't consider one that did have them.

 

Shakey

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