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Integrated amps w/ tone controls and mono switch


ODS123

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Less is more...   

More is less...

More or less :)

Personally, I like both depending on what music and my mood.

Of course, if your source is a computer/dac set up it is not a big deal to use a digital equalizer... just a software plug in to your audio player application.

Even on my main setup I use the plugin for Foobar to trim down a couple of peaks on the low end.  I think that is putting the controls where it will do the least harm.

I liked on some Yamaha's where I could bypass the tone controls if I wanted.

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I find tone controls cover a too wide frequency curve to ever be useful.  While they may boost or attenuate the frequencies you want to modify, they also affect a wide range of frequencies you would have liked to leave alone. Although I do not have one, a graphic equalizer makes more sense to me. That way you can correct the room anomalies and ensure a flat effective frequency response at your listening position. 

 

I would prefer a magic button that would filter out the excessive reverb present in most recordings, and to filter out ALL the digital reverb most newer recordings have.  Oh and another button to restore they dynamics that are squashed on modern masterings on CDs. 

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20 minutes ago, kink56 said:

I find tone controls cover a too wide frequency curve to ever be useful.  While they may boost or attenuate the frequencies you want to modify, they also affect a wide range of frequencies you would have liked to leave alone. Although I do not have one, a graphic equalizer makes more sense to me. That way you can correct the room anomalies and ensure a flat effective frequency response at your listening position. 

 

I would prefer a magic button that would filter out the excessive reverb present in most recordings, and to filter out ALL the digital reverb most newer recordings have.  Oh and another button to restore they dynamics that are squashed on modern masterings on CDs. 

 

 

No tone controls and no equalizers for me. I have very few recordings that are unlistenable. Sure some are better than others, but that's the beauty of it. If it weren't for the sow's ears, you wouldn't know what a silk purse is like. I like the signal path (at least what I can control) to be as simple as possible, adding gizmos and doo dads are not something I want to do.

 

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2 hours ago, Steve_S said:

 

Seems more audio is favoring going back to tone controls. Schiit also has a stand alone tone control unit you can wire between amp and preamp, etc. or remove entirely from signal path. 

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But I’m sure you wouldn’t buy a TV that didn’t have colour, contrast and brightness controls. One would need to be pretty invested in the sound of an amp without any controls. Most folk like the ability to modify for the sound they desire. Many in fact modify thier actual speakers.

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14 minutes ago, YK Thom said:

But I’m sure you wouldn’t buy a TV that didn’t have colour, contrast and brightness controls. One would need to be pretty invested in the sound of an amp without any controls. Most folk like the ability to modify for the sound they desire. Many in fact modify thier actual speakers.

 

I haven't adjusted a TV's settings in years. Not since the last time I had a CRT. Haven't adjusted tone controls since I was a teenager.

 

Most issues people have with the sound they hear is because of room acoustics and system set up. Get that right and voila! No need for band aids......., er, tone controls.

 

Shakey

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1 minute ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

I haven't adjusted a TV's settings in years. Not since the last time I had a CRT. Haven't adjusted tone controls since I was a teenager.

 

Most issues people have with the sound they hear is because of room acoustics and system set up. Get that right and voila! No need for band aids......., er, tone controls.

 

Shakey

That can be factor, and sometimes an insurmountable one depending on the room. All about personal control and preference tailoring, much akin to buying a performance vehicle with a stick, or being satisfied with the preset gearing of the automatic. To each his own.

On another note, the next TV you purchase will most likely require adjustment - they tend to like to ship them set up very bright. They are usually displayed in the showrooms the same way to catch your eye. Have had to do a fair bit of adjusting the last two sets LCD and LED).

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13 minutes ago, babadono said:

I like having a balance AND pan controls. And of course tone/EQ

mixer.jpg

Very similar to the board I used in the local FM station for production. I did weekends for them for about 7 years. We would use it for commercials and Voice Tracking prerecorded shows. Had it connected to a pretty nice little pair of Tannoy studio monitors.

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17 hours ago, richieb said:

 

Seems more audio is favoring going back to tone controls. Schiit also has a stand alone tone control unit you can wire between amp and preamp, etc. or remove entirely from signal path. 

All the control I need. To my tired old ears it works wonders. Makes the rp280f speakers sound great to my ear! And unlike making speaker mods it works on every speaker you put inline. If you like eq or not it can't be said it does not change the sound of your system

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On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:19 AM, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

No tone controls and no equalizers for me. I have very few recordings that are unlistenable. Sure some are better than others, but that's the beauty of it. If it weren't for the sow's ears, you wouldn't know what a silk purse is like. I like the signal path (at least what I can control) to be as simple as possible, adding gizmos and doo dads are not something I want to do.

 

Nor for me, but I am just saying tone controls are too general as compared to EQ's.   If I do not like the sound of an amp or preamp, I replace it, and none of them (except one GREAT preamp, the Crown SL-2) have had tone controls.  The one in my current avatar is the Threshold FET-10He, no tone controls and it is as neutral and transparent a preamp I have ever heard. 

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The fact is the Recordings and the whole Recording Process is not neutral and has no consistent standards so unless you have some method of compensating to some degree for this you are missing a good opportunity for a higher quality of reproduction from your system.

 

The debate isn’t if we need Tone Controls it’s about what kind of flexibility will serve our individual needs the best depending on the quality level of compensation our individual goals might be.

 

miketn

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On 3/14/2018 at 3:13 PM, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

Most issues people have with the sound they hear is because of room acoustics and system set up. Get that right and voila! No need for band aids......., er, tone controls.

 

Shakey

 

Not how I see it at all.  Yes, use room treatments, maybe room correction software, etc. to make your room as neutral as possible.  ..Still, unless I listen only to audiophile-approved recordings, I eventually come across song (or album) that can be made more listenable with a small turn of bass or treble.  ..As for Mono switch, I can't tell you how many old stereo recordings sound better in mono.  Still, it's a personal choice whether Tone controls or a mono switch are necessary.  What is not debatable, IMHO, is whether or not the presence of these basic tools are audibly harmful to the signal.  ..I submit that they absolutely ARE NOT harmful when zeroed.  

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On 3/10/2018 at 12:26 PM, ODS123 said:

Could definitely be a solution for someone wanting to add a mono switch to their system. 

 

One of the ageless arguments for NO tone/ Bal or Mono control is the idea that it shortens the signal path, reduces the number of breaks and keeps the signal purer. But this seems like total nonsense to me. Check out this pic of the mixing board Donald Fagen used in mixing "The Nightly" - an album roundly praised for its sound quality. If literally hundreds of sliders, switches, and pots didn't ruin the signal when recording this incredible sounding album in the studio then having tone/ balance/ mono controls on our integrated amps (or pre-amps) won't do an iota of damage to the signal in our home systems.

 

On 3/10/2018 at 12:26 PM, ODS123 said:

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-03-10 at 12.08.11 PM.png

but everything is recorded in mono..

then mixed down and panned to stereo..

 

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30 minutes ago, dirtmudd said:

 

but everything is recorded in mono..

then mixed down and panned to stereo..

 

 

The point I was making is being missed here. What I'm say is: If it is true that Treble/ Bass/ Balance/ Mono are so harmful to a signal then how does a signal survive the hundreds of zero'd (or adjusted) sliders on a mixing board and come out sounding as wonderful as some of our audiophile-approved music sounds (I was using Night fly as an example.)? The fact that one happens during the recording process, and the other during the playback in our homes is totally irrelevant to my point.

This serves to debunk the nonsensical notion that any true top-quality Pre-amp or Integrated should eschew these basic features. It's my contention that these basic tools make less-than-perfect music more enjoyable to the true music lover

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7 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

The point I was making is being missed here. What I'm say is: If it is true that Treble/ Bass/ Balance/ Mono are so harmful to a signal then how does a signal survive the hundreds of zero'd (or adjusted) sliders on a mixing board and come out sounding as wonderful as some of our audiophile-approved music sounds (I was using Night fly as an example.)? The fact that one happens during the recording process, and the other during the playback in our homes is totally irrelevant to my point.

This serves to debunk the nonsensical notion that any true top-quality Pre-amp or Integrated should eschew these basic features. It's my contention that these basic tools make less-than-perfect music more enjoyable to the true music lover

I use a Conrad Johnson pv7..

 

all I have is balance control..

 

as for a recording studio...

 

there are more variables to the mix

down to either mono or stereo...

 

to the final mix....which we hear at home or other devices...

 

intended by the artist ....

 

what we do at are end ....is up

to the listener....

 

and becomes a different mix all together..

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