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Kinda CF4 build.


AsD

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Hey guys. I was going to get a pair og Forte lll in a month or two. But due to unforseen tax ''penalties'' i might not have the green this year.

Therefore, i might just want to make something myself. I looked into the crites Cornscalas. But i think i am more into something like the CF4.

2 x 12" and a horn. It would be somewhat like a CF4 but with the horn on top.

 

I really need some input though. 

Good or bad idea?

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Did a quick search on EBay across the pond.  How far are you from Italy.  Perhaps,  the old Tangent speakers will work for you until you build up the green again or finish a build.

 

https://www.ebay.it/itm/KLIPSCH-TANGENT-T-50-Casse-diffusori-alta-efficienza-98-dB-radiatore-passivo/162929027651?hash=item25ef53aa43:g:4pUAAOSw2BxafIvH 

 

 

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20 hours ago, AsD said:

But i think i am more into something like the CF4.

2 x 12" and a horn. It would be somewhat like a CF4 but with the horn on top.

I can respond with more detail later (I have to leave the house in a few minutes) but part of the reason why the CF-4 is the MTM, or D'Apolito design.  It blends the sound in a very special way.

 

If you want to use the tweeter on top that is a different design.  I can make some recommendations later.  Browse DIYsoundgroup.com for some ideas.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/

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21 hours ago, AsD said:

I looked into the crites Cornscalas. But i think i am more into something like the CF4.

2 x 12" and a horn. It would be somewhat like a CF4 but with the horn on top.

 

I really need some input though. 

Good or bad idea?

 

I've been thinking about this myself, especially since the Ciare 12" woofers are on the radar now and seem to perform exceptionally well in the KLF-30 cabinets. The horn and driver from Crites type "D" Cornscala but with a crossover point at 800hz using a stock lower crossover from a KLF-30 for the woofers would be a fairly simple throw together and should sound pretty good. 

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27 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

I've been thinking about this myself, especially since the Ciare 12" woofers are on the radar now and seem to perform exceptionally well in the KLF-30 cabinets. The horn and driver from Crites type "D" Cornscala but with a crossover point at 800hz using a stock lower crossover from a KLF-30 for the woofers would be a fairly simple throw together and should sound pretty good. 

That is exactly what i want to do. So this could be a good idea?

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

I can respond with more detail later (I have to leave the house in a few minutes) but part of the reason why the CF-4 is the MTM, or D'Apolito design.  It blends the sound in a very special way.

 

If you want to use the tweeter on top that is a different design.  I can make some recommendations later.  Browse DIYsoundgroup.com for some ideas.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/

Well the reason i want the horn up top is to be more at ear level. I know a horn spreads more than a regular tweeter but i was thinking that it couldn't hurt.

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5 hours ago, AsD said:

Well the reason i want the horn up top is to be more at ear level. I know a horn spreads more than a regular tweeter but i was thinking that it couldn't hurt.

I am a big Klipsch fan but I have some DIY speakers I like as well.

 

Have you heard the CF-4?  The reason I'm asking is because I am wondering if you want to get that MTM characteristic sound, or are you interested in building a particular style of speaker, such as a 2-way or 3-way.

 

I can get you pretty close to the sound of the CF-4 with DIY, and you don't need the MTM style.

 

Here is the Fusion 10 Pure with a 12" SEOS waveguide, 1.4" compression driver, 2-way configuration.  When combined with a 15" sealed sub the sound is extremely accurate and very close to the CF-4.  The 18" stand puts it at ear height.  You would have about 400 euros in the pair, and the DIY sub w/500 watt plate amp is about 325 euros.

IMG_4450.JPG

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No i haven't heard the cf4 but i always liked the design. And i figuered i could try building a pair after i saw the fraital horn crites use. I just need a bit of help choosing a woofer and xover.

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Here's a link to the Ciare woofer thread that were used in the KLF-30:

 

 

Here's a link to the woofers themselves:

 

http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw321-1.htm

 

The KLF-30's are bi-ampable so you could just use the lower half for the woofers and figure something else out for the upper horn. Crites sells a crossover but set at 500hz, not sure if he would or could build one at 800hz? Never hurts to ask. Since he builds and sells the KLF-30 crossovers already might be able to twist his arm enough to build a 2-way crossover for this application; KLF-30 woofers / 800hz for the Faital Pro driver.  

 

I don't see why you couldn't align the drivers in any manner you wanted with either the horn in the center of the woofers or on top. All my speakers have been horn on top except when I had vertical RC-7's and honestly I didn't notice any great difference between them and the modded RF-5's I had with all the same parts in a slightly larger cabinet with the horn on top. 

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Interesting read. Those should be pretty good. The freq response seem a bit better than the ones i had looked at and they are only 140 euros.

I pretty much have everything but the crossover and grill cloth then. I think i would like to try something off white.

Oh. And cap volume, now to decide if i should just build a cf4 replica or tweak it.

Any comments on that?

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37 minutes ago, AsD said:

I pretty much have everything but the crossover and grill cloth then. I think i would like to try something off white.

Oh. And cabinet volume, now to decide if i should just build a cf4 replica or tweak it.

Any comments on that?

It sounds like you haven't built a speaker before, but you are good with woodworking so you can build your cabinet to your own specs.

 

I don't say that to be critical, it's just that even the experienced guys don't get things right the first time around.  I would suggest you find a proven kit and try to stay within known successful builds.

 

I have put together DIYSoundgroup.com  kits but always the design of somebody else.  I don't have the skills to build a cab, nor do I have the knowledge to advise you what components you will need to put together a crossover that works with your speaker drivers.

 

Two places I know that can offer help and support is

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/

http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/

 

There are other sites that are good for DIY as well.  Maybe someone can suggest another site that would be helpful.

 

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4 hours ago, AsD said:

 And cap volume, now to decide if i should just build a cf4 replica or tweak it.

Any comments on that?

 

The woofers seem to work well in the KLF-30 cabinet, if using the lower half of the KLF-30 crossover I'd try and stick with those dimensions as they are tried and true already no guess work. You might have to tweak the overall dimensions to fit that horn but I'd stay with the same cabinet volume and port size / placement if you want to keep things simple.

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8 hours ago, wvu80 said:

It sounds like you haven't built a speaker before, but you are good with woodworking so you can build your cabinet to your own specs.

 

I don't say that to be critical, it's just that even the experienced guys don't get things right the first time around.  I would suggest you find a proven kit and try to stay within known successful builds.

 

I have put together DIYSoundgroup.com  kits but always the design of somebody else.  I don't have the skills to build a cab, nor do I have the knowledge to advise you what components you will need to put together a crossover that works with your speaker drivers.

 

Two places I know that can offer help and support is

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/

http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/

 

There are other sites that are good for DIY as well.  Maybe someone can suggest another site that would be helpful.

 

You are right. Nothing like this anyway. Only a few bookshelf speakers. Nothing fancy, mostly taking drivers and crossover out of a damaged pair and putting them into a "copy".

And yes the woodworking part is easy enough, i even have access to a cnc machine if that should come in handy.

I am also quite adept in soldering if i can't find a finished crossover.

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4 hours ago, AsD said:

That is not a bad idea i quess. But the cf4 is a two way so wouldn't that be more in the line of what i am going with?

 

It really depends on what you are trying to do, this is your show and you're free to choose the content. To build a 2-way speaker set you need a woofer(s) cabinet combo that works up to a designated frequency where the horn driver takes over. The Ciare 12's fits the bill up to 800hz in the KLF-30 cabinet, this is tried and true already but that does not mean that you couldn't change things a bit to suit your taste, I was just trying to direct you to the simplest path that I know of.

 

If you're building from scratch you could plug the Thiele Small Parameters of the woofers into winisd or some other speaker building software and come up with the optimal cabinet size and porting specific to those woofers and see the response charted out for you, who knows maybe the Ciare woofers would perform better in a larger CF-4 style cabinet, maybe they would actually do better in a smaller cabinet, I don't know. 

 

 

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Thanks. I'll do that one of these days. Don't feel like looking for a laptop right now. 🙂

My biggest proplem seem to be the crossover. I can't find anyone who sells a high quality one with the right crossover frequence.

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25 minutes ago, AsD said:

My biggest proplem seem to be the crossover. I can't find anyone who sells a high quality one with the right crossover frequence.

 

Have you reached out to Bob Crites? Like I said he already builds crossovers for the KLF-30 and the Faital Pro horn driver combo, maybe he could work something up custom for your needs? If not there are other ways to go, there's a custom 2-way Cornwall project going on right now with the same horn driver being crossed over at the correct (800hz) frequency you would need to pull this off, here's a link to the thread:

 

 

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

Have you reached out to Bob Crites? Like I said he already builds crossovers for the KLF-30 and the Faital Pro horn driver combo, maybe he could work something up custom for your needs? If not there are other ways to go, there's a custom 2-way Cornwall project going on right now with the same horn driver being crossed over at the correct (800hz) frequency you would need to pull this off, here's a link to the thread:

 

 

The problem with crites is taxes, shipping etc to europe. I'll check it out. Thanks.

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