Klipsch B2 bookshelf speakers & 6 ohm receiver

[albert]

Hello,

 

I have a pair of Klispsch B2 bookshelf speakers and a Sub-10 subwoofer that were at one time connected to an Denon AVR which broke down and stopped being able to output audio.

 

The space I have this stereo system is an area inside of a motororhome approx. 14' x 8'.

I only have it connected to a PC via a 3.5mm audio cable from which I  play music, video, stream a tv show, movie, listen to the news, etc.

 

So it's more or less little audio system for a PC in a small area.

 

I found another audio receiver, used. A  Sony STR-K790 which I believe was originally part of a Sony Home Theatre System.

 

STR-K790 specifications

Stereo Mode (rated) (6 ohms 1 kHz, THD 1%) 85 W + 85 W

All speakers front, center,  surrounds and subwoofer are rated for 6 ohms

 

The B2 is rated for 8 ohms

 

Frequency Response  62Hz - 23kHz +/-3dB
Power Handling  75 w (300 w peak)
Sensitivity 92dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter
Nominal Impedance IMPEDANCE 8 ohms
Crossover Frequency 2300Hz

 

I've read there should be no problems connecting a 6 ohm receiver to 8 ohm speakers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The History Kid]

There shouldn't be any problems, but is there a particular reason you're going with this receiver?  It's a substantial step down in quality from a Denon.

[albert]

Well I thought about getting a better receiver, even a better one than the Denon AVR.

 

However since the only use is to provide better sound from streaming Internet, viewed from a confined space inside a RV. I didn't think a better receiver would make that much of a difference.  The two bookshelf speakers barely fit within my other things inside the RV. No room to install additional speakers for front rear center and surround speakers. Plus if in a small space having additional features and speakers makes less of a difference as my two book shelf speakers are 2 to 3 feet away.

 

My Internet streaming is also limited most of the time it streams SD video and occasionally I'm able to stream 720p.  If I try to stream actual HD 1080p there usually are problems. Also the comcast connection is shared by other users and the connections always going up and down and isn't consistence.

 

I doubt a better receiver would make any difference watching with the audio while streaming video at 480 and 720p.

 

With the Denon AVR I never used any of it's additional features as all it was used for  was to amplify  stereo audio. The Klipsch B2's are ok but perhaps a little too high pitched. The SUB-10 helps some with  base.

 

The RV has limited space with   alot of tools, boxes, books, misc electronics, cooking appliances and other stuff  stored in the RV that effects and cancels out most of the audio.

I doubt a better made, more recent audio receiver with more features would make much of a difference in this RV.

 

The space you have your audio and av equipment installed is as important as the audio equipment itself. There are people are spending alot of money to create space for home theatre systems.  Which typically can run from around $50,000.00 +/-. Though there are some that start lower at around ~$30,000.00.

 

 

[The History Kid]

My point is more that for the cost of the Sony, for a bit more you can get something that is in fact leaps and bounds better with a warranty.  Your amplification matters just as much as your speakers, just like you say...compromising shouldn't be a thing regardless of space.  You don't need to drop a ton of money into it...

 

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8020/onkyo-tx-8020-2-x-50-watts-stereo-receiver/1.html

 

$129, with a warranty - and it'd sound magical.

[albert]

Yes appears to be a good deal. However the warranty for the refurb is only for one year. The watts are 50 watts per channel instead of 85 watts per channel.

 

With shipping the Onkyo TX-8020 comes to ~$140.00.

 

With shipping the Sony is  $63.00.  Perhaps the additional cost would be worth it however the Onkyo is  more the twice what I  paid for the Sony. Has no HDMI same as the Sony.

 

After one year the Onkyo is out of warranty same as the Sony.

 

 

[The History Kid]

@albert - what you should understand about the Sony, however, that is not true with the Onkyo - is that the numbers of the Onkyo aren't inflated.  The Sony's are incredibly inflated - I would be surprised if the power supply spit out more than 30 watts into those channels.  The Onkyo uses a more substantial power supply that is capable of driving those 50 RMS.  "Watts" are not equal - they vary depending on the system you're using.  Not sure why HDMI was brought up if it isn't a thing.  You specified you're using 2 speakers and a sub running off of a PC - you don't need an AVR, you need a stereo receiver.  The Onkyo is spec'd and designed to be a stereo receiver.

[garyrc]

2 hours ago, albert said:

The watts are 50 watts per channel instead of 85 watts per channel.

 

I would guess the 85 watt per channel output is fudged, but legal.  They measure it at 6 Ohms, which produces a higher reading, and at 1K which is super easy, and with a total harmonic distortion of 1%, a lot of distortion.

 

The 50 watt per channel figure is probably for real (un-fudged).   It is measured at 8 Ohms (the standard), 20 to 20,000 Hz (the full range of frequencies in most music), and with decently low distortion.  They have put the letters FTC after the specs, which, I think, means they used measurement techniques approved by the Federal Trade Commission, which, although better than nothing, seems to let the audio industry (and particularly the car audio people) get away with murder by not punishing them when they fail to go by the measurement rules.

 

That having been said, I once had an emergency low priced tape player in the tiny office they put me in after the '89 earthquake.  It had a very low powered amplifier (10 watts), which I fed into Klipsch Heresy IIs.  In that small space, the system sounded fine.

 

EDIT: @The History Kid -- we were writing our posts at the same time.  At least there is a consensus of two!

[albert]

 I actually prefer things that are live such as live music.

 

I was originally looking at a Pioneers such as the SX-315 and SX-316. Back in the 80s and 90s I did own a now vintage 300 - 350 watt Pioneer, I believe it was an SX series, all silver, with  large and heavy wood speakers, Teac Reel to Reel and other audio equipment.

 

Your comparison in wattage may be correct, I don't know without actually testing the two receivers. For my situation and environment I may only require 30 watts. The back of the Sony the entire receiver show it's rated at 210 watts.

 

Anyway since it's already ordered I'll need to wait and see if it's works for my situation or not.

 

I was thinking of going down to the local Goodwill and Salvation Army and look for a Stereo. Once in a while good quality electronics is donated. A few months ago when my Canon printer quit working I picked up an almost  new Epson XP-820 printer for $20.00

 

Here's a few pics of the Sony STR-K790 which doesn't appear to be bad cosmetically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The History Kid]

Again, if it's got high distortion as most of those HTIB AVR's do.  That appears to be their step up from their shelf systems.

 

As for the sub...be aware you will need to run the left and right channel to the sub, then to the speakers - as this system does not have a sub output.  You'll want to spec that the speakers are full range (if you can), and spec there's no sub (if you can).  If you can't...well...I pretty much know how that listening session is going to go down if you can't.

[albert]

3 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

Again, if it's got high distortion as most of those HTIB AVR's do.  That appears to be their step up from their shelf systems.

 

As for the sub...be aware you will need to run the left and right channel to the sub, then to the speakers - as this system does not have a sub output.  You'll want to spec that the speakers are full range (if you can), and spec there's no sub (if you can).  If you can't...well...I pretty much know how that listening session is going to go down if you can't.

 

Yeah I seem to remember reading some about running the speaker wires to and from the subwoofer when a receiver doesn't have a subwoofer pre-outs.

 

According to the SUB-10 manual you're suppose to run wires from the SUB-10's high level IN

+ / - (Right/Left) to the receivers main speaker (Right/Left) + / - Output and from the Sub-10's high level OUT + / - (Right/Left) to the receivers main speakers (Right/Left) + /-.

 

So it appear you essentially have both front speakers connected to the receiver with the subwoofer inline between the front main speakers and receiver.

 

I'm not certain what you mean by  " You'll want to spec that the speakers are full range (if you can), and spec there's no sub (if you can)"

 

I'm not certain what you mean by full range and spec for no sub?

 

The bundled system the Sony receiver came with does have a subwoofer and the rec. has pair of jacks that are labeled "subwoofer" .

 

 

[The History Kid]

39 minutes ago, albert said:

I'm not certain what you mean by  " You'll want to spec that the speakers are full range (if you can), and spec there's no sub (if you can)"

 

I'm not certain what you mean by full range and spec for no sub?

 

The bundled system the Sony receiver came with does have a subwoofer and the rec. has pair of jacks that are labeled "subwoofer" .

 

 

Because you aren't using the Subwoofer line out on the receiver, you would not specify in the receivers setup that you have a sub.  You'd want to be sure that it was set to false, and that the bookshelves (Left an Right) are receiving the full range signal.  If you don't, the receiver may cut out a large amount of frequencies below 80, 120, 160, or 240 Hz - which is a really REALLY big deal.  If the Sony can't be spec'd, you might want to be sure that the AVR sending the full range of frequencies, and that the Sub is getting fed those frequencies.  The Sony has a high-powered line out - it's for a sub that is passive and has no amp.  Your sub that you have is active - it has an amp.

[albert]

Ok I've posed some questions on the AVS and Sony forums to determine if anyone may have some knowledge of the Sony STR-K790.

 

From what I've discerned the STR-K790 was original part of a Sony Theatre systems HT-DDW790 and HT-DDW795

 

From the users manual for the HT-DDW790 I could not find any information about disabling the K790's subwoofer which uses a passive Sony SS-WP700 subwoofer.

 

There is reference to it's subwoofer while in 2 channel mode

 

Reference power output for front, center, surround speakers and subwoofer. Depending on the sound field settings and the source there may be no sound output.

 

2 Channel Stereo Mode

Receiver outputs sound from left/right speakers and subwoofer.

The receiver's base redirection circuitry will be activated. The front channel bass frequencies will be output from the sub woofer.

There is also reference to  A.F.D Modes

 

A.F.D Modes

AFD auto Performs the sound as it was recorded/encoded without adding any surround effects. However receiver will generate a low frequency signal for output to the subwoofer when there is no LFE signals.

 

Perhaps I made a mistake ordering this rec. but it's been ordered and  would not make much sense spending more money on shipping to return it.

 

I'm currently looking at another Pioneer receiver that has a subwoofer pre-out and is higher wattage per channel. I'm uncertain what to do with the Sony receiver if I end up with two audio receivers.

 

                    

 

 

 

[albert]

Well I took your advice and requested the seller cancel the ebay transaction for the Sony STR-K790.

 

If able to cancel I'm going to look for another rec. with a subwoofer pre-out.

 

Possibly with better specifications. However I would prefer a min of 75 watts, perhaps 100+ watts per channel will allow for some expansion.

 

There are some used Pioneer SX series and also Yamaha, etc.  however their costs are significantly more, in the price range of the recommended Onkyo TX-8020 perhaps more.

 

 

 

 

[garyrc]

1 hour ago, albert said:

I would prefer a min of 75 watts, perhaps 100+ watts per channel will allow for some expansion.

 

If you go that way, be sure the unit is rated at 75 or 100+ watts per channel, measured at 8 Ohms (the standard), 20 to 20,000 Hz (the full range of frequencies in most music), and with decently low distortion, probably < 0.09%, many have much less, but, since you are looking in the used market, avoid used amps made before about 1982 (I don't quite remember when) when Otala discovered TIM (Transient Intermodulation Distortion) that also have outrageously low distortion (e.g., .0001%) because those low figures were sometimes achieved by much negative feedback to kill named distortion, while increasing TIM distortion, which was unnamed and unmeasured until Otala came long.  Paul W. Klipsch thought that Otala's research was so valuable that TIM should be called Otala distortion, but the name was never widely adopted. 

 

There is a co-incidence (or at least a pattern) that there are very few good amps below 100 w.p.c., except for special, expensive tube amps.  It's not that you need 100 watts with the B2s (you probably don't), but that 30, 50, etc., watt amps are usually not very good in other ways (with exceptions, if you apply the standards above).

[albert]

I'm slowly looking around as I need to find and lookup specifications  for most of the used receivers.

 

I came across this one at a low price however I'm uncertain if it's specifications,

 

Mitsubishi M-VR400 AV

 

I also came across a DENON AVR-485  that is (20 Hz to 20 kHz) 75 watts per channel at 8 ohms,  .08 THD and 110 watts at 6 ohms,  . 7 THD

 

Has a subwoofer pre-out that appears is for an active subwoofer.

 

The AVR-485 supports subwoofer cross-over switching with a choice of 8 cross-over frequencies 40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250Hz.This lets you more accurately match performance characteristics of the subwoofer to the main speaker system.

 

Frequency response 10 Hz - 100 kHz (+1, -3 dB)
Signal to noise ration 98 dB

Subwoofer - 1.2 V/10 kohms
CDR/Tape, VCR 200 mV/47 kohms

 

Tone control -
treble +/- 10 dB at 10 kHz
Base +/- 10 dB at 100 kHz

 

http://www.specsserver.com/CACHE/FILE3953.PDF

 

[The History Kid]

@albert - Do not buy based on power ratings.

The entry level Denon you are quoting has a very weak power supply, and you will be wanting much more very soon from the unit.  The Onkyo I linked you to at 50 RMS 2 channels driven would still be your best bang for the buck.

 

I'll put it like this, I used to run a unit that was 65 RMS x 7, and it would outperform most Denons rated at 100 any day of the week.  AVR's aren't spec'd at 100 RMS with all channels driven anymore.  You might see them listed at that, but it's only when one channel is driven, sometimes two.  If you aren't expanding into home theater, save yourself some headache and buy a stereo receiver that is designed for 2 channel music and listening.

[albert]

Well ok I'm just going done the list from the lowest price. If I'm going to spend around 150 dollars another 50+ bucks isn't going to make that big of a difference so perhaps I should set my low price at $130.00 and look for receivers between $130.00 and ~$200.00 and then if at $200.00 whats another 50 bucks perhaps should set a high limit at $250.00?

 

It's sort of a slow process as each receiver I need to search online for it's specifications. As I stated I don't think I'm going to add many speakers perhaps a couple more and don't plan on connecting other equipment other than a PC and LCD monitor.

 

I'm still working my way up from the lowest price used receivers. Currently the only sound output I have is from my Nec V323-2 monitor speakers that are only a few watts.

 

The Denon AVR is sitting here on the floor as dead weight. I suppose it can be used for spare parts? Though I've repaired some types of electronics in the past. If it's only a matter of replacing a board related to audio I may be able to repair it. I would really require a repair manual with detail instructions and schematics as I've never worked on AVR's and audio receivers.

 

 

 

[The History Kid]

Well ok I'm just going done the list from the lowest price. If I'm going to spend around 150 dollars another 50+ bucks isn't going to make that big of a difference so perhaps I should set my low price at $130.00 and look for receivers between $130.00 and ~$200.00 and then if at $200.00 whats another 50 bucks perhaps should set a high limit at $250.00?
 
It's sort of a slow process as each receiver I need to search online for it's specifications. As I stated I don't think I'm going to add many speakers perhaps a couple more and don't plan on connecting other equipment other than a PC and LCD monitor.
 
I'm still working my way up from the lowest price used receivers. Currently the only sound output I have is from my Nec V323-2 monitor speakers that are only a few watts.
 
The Denon AVR is sitting here on the floor as dead weight. I suppose it can be used for spare parts? Though I've repaired some types of electronics in the past. If it's only a matter of replacing a board related to audio I may be able to repair it. I would really require a repair manual with detail instructions and schematics as I've never worked on AVR's and audio receivers.
 
 
 

If that is your budget and your goal, then this I think will do you right:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/intdtr403/integra-dtr-40.3-7.2-ch-x-110-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

I own one of these now, powering a pair of H1s and Reference surrounds/center. It sounds magical and can pound with units 10x the asking price. I also purchased my unit from this company. Best bang for your dollar.

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[albert]

Ok will seriously consider.

 

I'm just being cautious as I've purchased many new products in the past that have flaked out on me. Some just after the manufacture's warranty expired. Many manufactures of some types of products have reduced their 3 and 5 year warranties to 1 year. The problem with many products is their designed to be replaced as the marketing has changed over the years. Not that many years ago products were designed to last  ~30+ years and also designed to be affordably repaired. There were repair people and shops all over the place, that would send a repair person to you home at an affordable repair rate. Sure some manufactures may still do this today if your product's warranty hasn't expired. Paying them  to repair a product often cost approx. the same or more than a new one.

 

I guess I'm tired of continually replacing products,  many of which may have new features but have poor build quality and quality control. What good are these new features and specifications if your product won't turn on, produce sound, unreliable, etc.

 

I don't think many of the companies would still be in business if it weren't for the fact a certain percentage or perhaps most of their products fail and require replacement. Though there may be exceptions most products aren't really designed to last very long, their basically designed to be replaced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The History Kid]

Well, I can say there: you won't know until you try. Mass produced electronics are just that, mass produced. There are bound to be lemons. The upside on the Integra is a 2 year warranty, the which is decent for an AVR. The price is right too. If something happens to it in 3 years, at least it wasn't that much to begin with.

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