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Was Heresy the First Sealed Speaker


ishwash

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16 minutes ago, garyrc said:

Acoustic suspension speakers tend to sound muddy, due to extreme cone travel, while some large infinite baffles, such as the Concert Grand sound tight, clean, and sweet while producing excellent bass...

 

When I was selling audio gear back between 1977 and 1981 the dealer I worked for carried both Klipsch and Bozak, and we had a pair of demo Bozak Concert Grands powered by a MacIntosh MC2300 amp. They did sound very, very good: Low distortion, good detail, smooth treble and good bass. Unfortunately, one day someone (not me) pushed things too far and fried several drivers in each Concert Grand demo speaker. The store eventually shipped the pair back to Bozak and never replaced them  (I don't think we ever sold a pair while we had them on display.)

 

BTW, we displayed the Klipschorns in a different room than the Bozaks (only one sound room had two 90-degree corners on the same wall) so we could never directly compare them with the Concert Grands. My own impression was that the Bozaks were somewhat smoother sounding with very solid bass, but had less life-like dynamics and just weren't as emotionally involving as the Klipschorns. I know that the soundroom walls were not constructed as solidly as those in a typical home and the corners were much further apart than they would be in a typical home, so our demo Klipschorns definitely were not performing as well as they normally would. (Even so, I still managed to sell 2 pairs of Klipschorns and 2 Klipschorn/Belle Klipsch arrays while I worked there, as well as La Scalas, Cornwalls and tons of Heresys.)

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Doesn't some subs defeat the reason you chose Klipsch speakers?

I have a sub, it has a huge surround, I really do not want it to use

the high excursion because I know it will add more distortion at

higher excursions.

When adding subs to Low Excursion bass systems from Klipsch,

don't you want low excursion subs to keep distortion low?

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2 minutes ago, rebuy said:

Doesn't some subs defeat the reason you chose Klipsch speakers?

I have a sub, it has a huge surround, I really do not want it to use

the high excursion because I know it will add more distortion at

higher excursions.

When adding subs to Low Excursion bass systems from Klipsch,

don't you want low excursion subs to keep distortion low?

 

 

Yes, and horn loaded subs would be better., but the tend not to go as low.   There are some DIY plans out there.

 

BUT,

 

As I understand it, the crossover saves you, to a degree.  If your sub crosses over at 80 Hz, at least its large and nasty excursion can't modulate frequencies all the way up to 500 Hz or 1K, or higher, like a wide excursion regular woofer would do.  In an acoustic suspension speaker like an AR, lower middle frequencies "ride" on the widely (and wildly) pumping woofer, causing Doppler distortion.  There are several sidebands created.  Somewhere in the Klipsch Audio Papers there are scope photos of those sidebands.

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2 hours ago, garyrc said:

read "up to" 13 dB below the true level of very brief peaks

I used to measure 10 watt peaks with a Radio Shack peak LED power meter. Had to set it to -20 db sensitivity as it only tickled the 10 W LED in normal mode of 200W peaks. So typically 2 watt peaks for me in a medium size room, 12x15 back in the late 70's when I was into a bit louder than I am today. he When I visited Paul W Klipsch at the plant and his home in Hope, I told him I allowed for about 13 db headroom. His reply: "Make it 17." This translates to 3 Watt peaks based on the 0.06 watts per Keele's chart.

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Guest wdecho

PWK once said something like "What we need is an excellent 5 watt amplifier." Nelson Pass with watt meters installed in his demo room with 95db full range speakers measures 5 to 6 watts on peaks. If 5 watt tube amplifiers are not good enough for our speakers what in the world are they good for. There would be no market for them, yet they still command high prices among serious listeners. If you are wondering why, give a good 5 watt SET tube amp or a 25 watt SS class A amp a try and find out sometime in your life. I waited till I was in my 60's to find out thinking everyone knows more power equates to better sound. Nelson Pass' highly successful kitchen table project is called Firstwatt for a reason. It is the watt that really matters. In my world 1 watt is plenty. I have been listening with Tube Fanatic's 1 watt "little sweetie" for the last few days missing nothing including loudness. 

 

I am a Nelson Pass groupie reading everything I can find he has published and having built many of his designs. He has stated in the past that all his early life he designed amplifiers with high power and great numbers. Now he designs amplifiers that sound good to him and hoping someone agrees and purchases his products. It appears he has been highly successful with his own companies selling what he considers matters in amplification. I will guess that the bulk of his companies sales are the amplifiers in the 25 watt or less price range. 

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