JohnKuthe Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 To my Phase Linear 400 Power Amp!! :-( I WANNA SOLDER the damn INPUTS! :-( Every time I wiggle the RCA cables going INTO the RCA inputs TO my Phase Linear 400 amp (NO volume control OR On/Off switch!) IT MESSES UP MY MUSIC!! And can anyone also tell me WHY I can't use an RCA splitter cable to split my preamp's output to TWO DIFFERENT AMPS? Seems like plugging the RCA splitter's Y-ends into a second amp drastically ATTENUATES/POLLUTES the signal going into my Phase Linear amp which IS the amp I'm using to drive my La Scalas. :-( I was hoping to use a second amp for a couple of 15" subwoofer drivers or even the 15" full range I have presently. Any ideas? John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Wow, a Flame Linear -- you must have the last one on the planet that hasn't exploded yet. The RCA plugs are held to the chassis on the inside by nuts. Unplug the amp, open it up, and use a wrench to tighten them. Don't let the jack rotate while you're tightening it, or you'll break the connection (the wire soldered to the jack). If your comfort level is low, have a tech do it. On the splitter issue, it should work. If not, it might be related to your loose jacks, or too low of an input impedance. "As long as the combined input impedance of the two amplifiers is acceptable, you should be fine. For example, if the two input impedances equate to 5k ohm input impedance, that might be a hard load for a consumer level preamp. If it's >10k ohms, you should be OK." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Deang said: Wow, a Flame Linear -- you must have the last one on the planet that hasn't exploded yet. The RCA plugs are held to the chassis on the inside by nuts. Unplug the amp, open it up, and use a wrench to tighten them. Don't let the jack rotate while you're tightening it, or you'll break the connection (the wire soldered to the jack). If your comfort level is low, have a tech do it. On the splitter issue, it should work. If not, it might be related to your loose jacks, or too low of an input impedance. "As long as the combined input impedance of the two amplifiers is acceptable, you should be fine. For example, if the two input impedances equate to 5k ohm input impedance, that might be a hard load for a consumer level preamp. If it's >10k ohms, you should be OK." Thanks! Yeah, I was in my local Stereo Shop where I took my recently acquired Teac Tascam A-2340 Four Track Reel to Reel to have int cleaned and refurbished, and I was looking to buy a good used power amp and went upstairs to peruse their used equipment room upstairs and l LO AND BEHOLD I look down and what do I see? Phase Linear 400! WOW!! Now THAT'S A POWER AMP!!! Rated at 200W RMS per channel CLEAN! One of the BEST built audio power amps of the '70's!! And IT IS! Now I just have to get it CLEAN SIGNALS to amplify! And I cannot figure out WHY AND WHERE my RCA Inputs to it are getting trashed! :-( I blame the MODERN CHEAP RECEIVER AMP that we had to buy at Best Buy to MAKE THE LA SCALAS to WORK to demo them for me when I bought them. I am having a terrible time getting everything to work together! PROPERLY!! And I stupidly bought a 50 foot RCA cable at AMicroelectronics yesterday just to see how badly it might work! And BOY IT DOES! Work and BADLY!!! :-( John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 "On the splitter issue, it should work. If not, it might be related to your loose jacks, or too low of an input impedance." Yep! That's what it sounds like, LOW RCA INPUT LINE LEVEL IMPEDANCE on this CHEAP RECEIVER/AMP! Because when I run my La Scalas ONLY off the Phase Linear 400 they sound fine BUT then when I plug the second Y-RCA connector into my other amp, the Phase Linear 400 signal to the La Scalas drops and messes up! SOMETHING from my second amp is trashing my whole desire to biamp my speaker driver output! CHEAP MODERN CRAP AMPS!! :-( I BOUGHT a Tpro .com one "rated" (Advertised) at 1000WPC and it was TRASH! :-( 60Hz BUZZ INDEPENDENT OF ANY INPUTS!! :-( Then I bought the Phase Linear 400! Thanks for the discussion. :-) John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Hate to burst your bubble, but, When Phase 400s were for sale, they were considered disposable PA amps. Nasty, gritty, too cheap to fix...... If you want a nice vintage power amp, look for old McIntosh, SAE, old B&K, Threshold, Mission, Adcom (GFA-535), Rotel, Acurus, ..... La Scalas need less than 50 watts/channel. My Acurus amps run in Class a to about 1.25 watts. I doubt I exceed that on most movies. Of course, "Sweet Jane" is another story. I once had a pair of 8 watt tube mono amps. In the time I had them, I never heard them clip in a room that was 18' x 21'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Dynaco Stereo 400 was way more of a quality power amp than anything Phase Linear ever made during the same time frame. Unfortunately there are quite a few of the Dynaco 400's still around that were shoddily built from kits...so the best bet is to get a factory-built one and refurbish it, if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, JohnA said: Hate to burst your bubble, but, When Phase 400s were for sale, they were considered disposable PA amps. Nasty, gritty, too cheap to fix...... I didn't want to offend him. Imagine that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 9 hours ago, JohnA said: Hate to burst your bubble, but, When Phase 400s were for sale, they were considered disposable PA amps. Nasty, gritty, too cheap to fix...... If you want a nice vintage power amp, look for old McIntosh, SAE, old B&K, Threshold, Mission, Adcom (GFA-535), Rotel, Acurus, ..... La Scalas need less than 50 watts/channel. My Acurus amps run in Class a to about 1.25 watts. I doubt I exceed that on most movies. Of course, "Sweet Jane" is another story. I once had a pair of 8 watt tube mono amps. In the time I had them, I never heard them clip in a room that was 18' x 21'. Hmmm, that was NOT the general impression of Phase Linears back in their day! And this one certainly SOUNDS pretty great and certainly more power than my La Scalas will ever need. I know what you mean about a very efficient and very high quality speakers on a low power tube amp. Tube clipping is a whole different sound of distortion than transistors clipping. Mellower, more lowf in it than transistors distortion. Tubes are lot more forgiving too than transistors meaning they will less likely fail when clipping. John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 No, that's pretty much why they were nicknamed "Flame Linear". It was a known fact. Bob Carver even admits now they had their issues. But I do love my fully rebuilt and upgraded (and signed by Bob) Carver M-1.0t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 23 hours ago, JohnKuthe said: Hmmm, that was NOT the general impression of Phase Linears back in their day! And this one certainly SOUNDS pretty great and certainly more power than my La Scalas will ever need. I know what you mean about a very efficient and very high quality speakers on a low power tube amp. Tube clipping is a whole different sound of distortion than transistors clipping. Mellower, more lowf in it than transistors distortion. Tubes are lot more forgiving too than transistors meaning they will less likely fail when clipping. John Kuthe... I recall they were unusually dynamic amps, but suffered from an audibly high distortion level which may have been a high level of crossover notch distortion. Some felt that for smooth quality sound, they were superseded by the Jim Borgiorno fully complementary output design, as found in SAE, Dynaco, etc. I had a PL 400 that was exciting but irritating, at least on K-horns. An SAE IIICM was vastly better IMO -- that's going back a long way, though. "Mr. Bongiorno is credited with designing the first full dual-differential complementary amplifier topology that is the basis for nearly all modern solid-state amplifiers today. Certainly the name “Ampzilla” is one many audiophiles around the world fondly remember as one of the most popular amplifiers developed. James' circuit topologies are the stuff of legend, lore and imitation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, avguytx said: No, that's pretty much why they were nicknamed "Flame Linear". It was a known fact. Bob Carver even admits now they had their issues. But I do love my fully rebuilt and upgraded (and signed by Bob) Carver M-1.0t. Nice!Carver-M-1-0t I'll consider one when my Flame Linear BURNS UP! Which I doubt it ever will cause my La Scalas are SO DAMNED EFFECIENT it hurts! I hardlty EVER see the Flame Linear's meters twitch! PS: I GOT my whole system MOST IMPORTANTLY my turntable on the rebuilt glass shelf atop the stone FAKE FIREPLACE in my Hippie Pad! :-) My carpenter ran the wires througth the walls and ceiling from the back of where I've physically placed each speaker unit in my main basement room (two La Scalas and one Bigassed Speaker thing with two subwoofer drivers) to the back of the stone fireplace in my Hippie Pad in the next room! So NO MORE ACOUSTIC FEEDBACK!! And I have the biggest bass knob, the digital volume control of an independent 110WPC AMP with low pass filters on it's RCA inputs driving the two 15" SUBWOOFERS! And it can THUMP for Hip Hop or be a subtle additive bass to other material over the La Scalas!! Beautiful scalable adjunct BASS! :-) Just as I designed and implemented it! John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 A friend had a pair of Khorns hooked to a Phase Linear 400 that went DC on one channel and took out a woofer. That's the only time I ever heard of someone losing a Khorn woofer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 10:35 PM, JohnKuthe said: Hmmm, that was NOT the general impression of Phase Linears back in their day! .................................... John Kuthe... Oh, but it was. I lived through that era. Phase Linear was a resounding flop in the Music City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 8 hours ago, JohnA said: Oh, but it was. I lived through that era. Phase Linear was a resounding flop in the Music City. Well, I'm living through it now!!! :-( Gonna have to DUMP another $375 I paid for it, maybe. unless I can get the shop Alpha Audio here in STL to take it back on 90 days warranty CAUSE IT SUCKS! I'll buy another used power amp they may haver that's actually worth a cuss! :-( I BROKE IT, I think! :-( Tried to put GOOD RCAs on to minimize signal loss AND TRASHED SOMETHING! :-) John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I lived through that era, too. With veiling speakers, Phase Linear amps sounded good while they lasted. A friend had a Marantz preamp (the golden faced one used in the film Alex in Wonderland) and a Phase Linear 400 with Bose 901s. They sounded good. I assume the grittyness never got through the Bose. La Scalas are very very revealing, though. I'd say either return them, or have a service dept. go over them and check them for potential hazards, then put some fast blow fuses in the speaker wire on the way to the La Scalas. Just in case, keep a fire extinguisher handy! Guys, what value fuse should he use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 He was breaking new ground with the design Yes, there was a learning curve and growing pains The original era Phase Linears can be modified today to make things reliable by any competent tech I know of more than a few early models still pumping out tunes to this day - and safely and reliably so Bob Carver was exploring (at the time) uncharted waters The "Flame Linear" pile ons are typical group think insults perpetrated through the years by folks who have never even been in the same room with one - let alone actually heard one On the other hand (or foot if you prefer) KENWOOD, to cite but one example, had more than it's share of huge power output but VERY unstable amps - going into oscillation and worse - all required mods (plenty-o-factory bulletins and letters to owners) but you never hear about them today, now do you? And they were poplar models too, not some obscure stuff It's amazing how long garbage can linger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 11:49 AM, JohnKuthe said: CHEAP MODERN CRAP AMPS!! :-( I BOUGHT a Tpro .com one "rated" (Advertised) at 1000WPC and it was TRASH! :-( 60Hz BUZZ INDEPENDENT OF ANY INPUTS!! :-( Then I bought the Phase Linear 400! Thanks for the discussion. :-) John Kuthe... I think when you see crazy power ratings for an amp like "3000 watts for $199" that would usually tell me all I needed to know about that product. Technical Pro, Pyle, whatever...pretty much speak for themselves with the idiotic ads they post. Congrats on being one the the few people with a good system that took that leap of faith though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, teaman said: I think when you see crazy power ratings for an amp like "3000 watts for $199" that would usually tell me all I needed to know about that product. Technical Pro, Pyle, whatever...pretty much speak for themselves with the idiotic ads they post. Congrats on being one the the few people with a good system that took that leap of faith though! Oh I hear THAT one!! I bought ONLINE a Tpro .com "1000W per channel stereo RECEIVER" which sounded like crap right out of the box! :-( Wanna BUY IT FROM ME? It makes a lousy doorstop! ;-) John Kuthe... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I decided that I'm gonna solve my current systems problems professionally:Alpha Tech STL John Kuthe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKuthe Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 On 3/31/2018 at 11:52 PM, JohnKuthe said: I decided that I'm gonna solve my current systems problems professionally:Alpha Tech STL John Kuthe... I found a solution: 1. Alpha Tech's tech pulled the top cover plate off my Linear Flame 300 and got in there and squeezed the RCA input pin socket a little tighter for a lot better RCA Input contact! 2. I bought another used power amp at Alpha Tech they had on a display table in their customer area:McIntosh MC2105 to power my La Scalas! I am the LUCKY BOY! :-) John Kuthe... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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