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chetanh

Will i damage my speakers?

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Which packs do you recommend for a speaker with high sensitivity that will produce SPL much greater than the RP250 with the same power input?  I am guessing they have to be horn loaded. Something around 300$ per unit... (+=$100)

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6 minutes ago, chetanh said:

Which packs do you recommend for a speaker with high sensitivity that will produce SPL much greater than the RP250 with the same power input?  I am guessing they have to be horn loaded

The DIYSG offerings use a SEOS which is a horn, but more accurately described as a waveguide and use a compression driver, just like Klipsch.  They have high sensitivity and can be driven with very low power.

 

What is your budget, and do you want full range speakers?  My Fusion 10's use pro audio drivers and were designed to be used with a sub.

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It sounds like there is another variable not being addressed. Things should be getting ugly around 75-80% of the max volume on the Onk, maybe even before that.  Don't know if you're running Audyssey, but if so, it likely has the channels cut down possibly in the -8, -10db range or the source input has very low voltage.  That is if the volume control max's out at 99 or 100.

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Thanks for your reply. I have a sub and the crossover is @80Hz so something that can play 65 or over is good. Just looking for two front. Something around 300$ +- 100 will be awesome. This is for inside..

 

 

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1 minute ago, Max2 said:

It sounds like there is another variable not being addressed. Things should be getting ugly around 75-80% of the max volume on the Onk.  Don't know if you're running Audyssey, but if so, it likely has the channels cut down possibly in the 8-10db range or the source input has very low voltage.  That is if the volume control max's out at 99 or 100.

Funnily i get no distortion or clipping whatsoever till 92... did not go beyond that and yes Audussey lowwered the channels to -10 and -12 DB.

Not sure about the the point you are trying to make (its not you its me.. i am new to this) Sorry..

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4 minutes ago, chetanh said:

Just looking for two front. Something around 300$ +- 100 will be awesome.

Just clarifying, $300 budget for the pair?

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18 minutes ago, chetanh said:

Funnily i get no distortion or clipping whatsoever till 92... did not go beyond that and yes Audussey lowwered the channels to -10 and -12 DB.

Not sure about the the point you are trying to make (its not you its me.. i am new to this) Sorry..

I may have missed out on you noting that you were using Audyssey in the thread.   That is why the Pre side is limiting the power output, which may also be why you haven't damaged a driver yet.  Have you tried turning Audyssey off and just listening to music without it, assuming you were using them for music and not movies?  

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We listen to music but its through youtube using apple tv and then watch movies through netflix.. its mixed use..i dont think i can turn audyssey off for music and on for movies. Can i?

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9 minutes ago, chetanh said:

We listen to music but its through youtube using apple tv and then watch movies through netflix.. its mixed use..i dont think i can turn audyssey off for music and on for movies. Can i?

I can with my NAD pre/pro.

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, chetanh said:

300 each

There are a couple of good options for some horn driven DIY speakers in that price range.

 

The Fusion 10 Pure are the speakers I have.  They can handle 350 watts and play to 120 db.  The downside is I didn't see a pre-assembled crossover so you would need to solder it yourself.  Price for the kit and flat pack would be $252 shipped. 

 

What I would suggest is the HTM-10.  That is a home theater monitor, $328.  It is a newer design than the F10.  It has a much larger compression driver at 1.75" and a larger waveguide, 12" vs 10".  You can get the pre-assembled XO for $25, recommended. 

 

It is 95 db efficient and can go 120 db.  Power handling is higher than the F10 as the HTM-10 can be driven 10-500 wpc.

 

I own the Onk 717 and Fusion 10 so I know that combination works well.  When used with a 15" sub the sound is extremely accurate.  It gives you that live, loud sound which compares to my CF-4's (with sub) which were $2600 new in 1994.

 

I generally don't like talking about other speaker brands out of respect to our hosts.  In the case of DIY I don't think it compares to a Klipsch commercial product.  It compares more to Klipsch in the used market in terms of bang-for-the-buck IMO.

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Thanks for your reply. Its dimenions are 15" W x 19.5" H x 9" D The Klipsch is HEIGHT 36.10”  WIDTH 7.87” DEPTH 14.82”

 

So the Klipsch is bigger. Will it still exceeed the SPL of the Klipsch?

Do i need to buy anything else other than the speaker and the crossover (other than glue, paint etc.)

 

Is HTM-12 a overkill? Right now both are out of stock

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1 hour ago, chetanh said:

Thanks for your reply. Its dimenions are 15" W x 19.5" H x 9" D The Klipsch is HEIGHT 36.10”  WIDTH 7.87” DEPTH 14.82”

 

So the Klipsch is bigger. Will it still exceeed the SPL of the Klipsch?

Do i need to buy anything else other than the speaker and the crossover (other than glue, paint etc.)

 

Is HTM-12 a overkill? Right now both are out of stock

Last things first.  I contacted Erich at DIYSG.  He is a one-man show and is so busy with filling orders right now he took those kits off-line so he could catch up.  He has plenty in stock of all models.  If you send him a note through the web site he'll put them back up long enough for you to order if you want to. 

 

Erich sells the kits at cost which is why they are so inexpensive, no markup.   He is committed to the DIY community and is a national treasure as far as I am and a LOT of other DIY'ers are concerned.

+++

 

The HTM-12 is not overkill.  In fact it is the kit I have been eyeing.  It uses a 15" SEOS waveguide.  By comparison my CF-4's which feature dual 12" woofers uses a 12" wide horn.  People are raving about the huge soundstage the HTM-12 puts out.  The designer MTG (Matt Grant) says they sound almost the same if level matched.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2589729-new-diysg-speakers-htm-12-htm-10-a-2.html#post47280721

 

Here's a build thread for the MTM-10.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2674665-tastyratz-first-build-htm10-me-good-things-come-three.html

 

Build thread for 10's and 12's

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2977540-htm12-htm10-build-eventually-htm8s.html

+++

 

What you need to buy:  From DIYSoundgroup.com get the kit of your choice, the flat pack and the assembled crossover.  You can save $25 if you want to solder the XO yourself but I highly recommend get the assembled XO it eliminates a lot of work.  Get the binding posts from DIYSG or ones of your choice, probably from Parts-express.

 

Other stuff:  I used satin black paint but I like black speakers, one gallon, I use latex paint.  The MDF sucks up paint like crazy, so two coats.  Four inch roller, fine knit.  I suppose the standard 9" would be fine, I just used the 4" on mine, it was easier to control the paint coverage.

 

You will need glue, 16 oz bottle of Titebond III.  Titebond II is slighter more viscous to keep the tight tolerances of the CNC cut flat pack, but it dries a lot faster.  The III will be easier to work with if you need to adjust things on the fly.

 

You will need to line the wall of the ported boxes with  denim insulation from Home Depot.

 

Or convoluted open cell foam.  Fiberglass insulation will work as well.  The denim insulation is the current favorite of DIY'ers. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I would like to reply to alot of the comments I read above:

1) the only thing that damages 98% of drivers is HEAT!!! NOT POWER! When you overdrive an amp, it produces what we call square-waves, and that causes massive heat gains in the voice coils, and failure. Even if not clipping, but driving at higher levels than the speaker is designed to do long term, it can overheat and melt the coil!  If you provide way more power than the thing is made for, and actually drive it that hard, you "could" push the coil out of the gap, but that's unlikely, it'll probably overheat and burn the coil and die!

 

2) why is your ht amp setting stuff down so low???  The "reference level" as described "could" be referencing one of a few different things:

A) reference to the lowest speaker on the system- it will match levels of all other speakers to match the one with the lowest sensitivity (which would be set to 0db cut).

B ) (more likely) the reference level is a db level defined at the factory, probably related to an industry standard reference for how loud a movie is supposed to be based on the audio that mixed/mastered it.  The numbers will vary based on sensitivity of the speaker, and since Klipsch are generally more sensitive than most, we get negative values (reduction of db to the amp) to bring our lid speakers down to reference level-  the amp is still able to produce up to a certain wattage, but the reference level leaves more headroom past the "reference number". Theoretically, if driven with a clean source that is not distorted to begin with, you can safely turn the volume up however many decibels past the reference that is being cut in the processing! If there's a positive gain, then you might reach clip before the reference level if the signal source is at the top of the input scale!

3) best input:  yes, some excellent d/a converters exist, and are better than what you find in most average consumer gear, but that only applies if you have an analog amplifier chain!  If you plug that into your digital receiver, you are just re-encoding to digital, processing, then re-decoding using the quality of the converters in the receiver! You are also introducing possible level variations depending on voltages and impedances of the inputs and outputs of the equipment.

The BEST WAY to input your signal to the receiver is by preserving the digital signal and using a digital input, be it spdif coaxial or optical, or via hdmi- they should all give the same quality- you are skipping the "cheap part" of your output device- the d/a converter, and passing the exact content you obtained from the internet to the receiver to be processed and d/a'ed in its final destination. The actual device receiving the content plays virtually no role in the quality of the audio signal being output via digital means!  As mentioned above, look for better quality programming, like from spotify premium with HD sound quality. Youtube videos are made by whoever posted them, and many if not most have no idea how to preserve good audio quality (and if they do preserve good quality then it may be by chance!)  Once you have a turd you can polish it all you want but you still have a turd!

4) Volume!  What you hear in the room is a function of the source level X gain (volume) X amplification (up to however many watts is available during signal peaks- avg level will only be a few watts, believe it or not!) X speaker sensitivity X Room acoustics. Any of those factors will effect Max volume. Speaker size doesn't matter, only sensitivity X power +/- room acoustics! The theory that larger speakers play louder can hold some water, but not necessarily! Mid and high frequencies will not benefit from a larger speaker (unless your talking about a horn throat which enhances speaker sensitivity). Low frequencies can benefit from larger boxes by not stressing to produce deeper notes, the box will help the sensitivity of the speaker at that point), but the speaker still needs to handle the power and produce the sensitivity or it won't be louder!

Bi-amping or try-amping is using an electronic xover to feed amplifiers playing to each driver, so the mid amps can or all power to the mid frequencies and don't need to produce bass notes.

I know some of the larger klipsch resemble "pro speakers" and have pretty impressive specs to boot, but I wouldn't recommend driving anything with a home amplifier to run a party that requires long term loud volume! Even low-budget pro amps, using digital technology, are producing 300-2000 watts per channel with low distortion levels, and are made to handle the abuse of long term high levels without overheating.  I highly recommend getting one of those amps (see behringer for cheap but decent quality, be weary of non-pro garbage that tries to sell as pro-grade! Stay away from anything with the word "pro" in the name!) and a speaker that can handle it properly! On the flip side, many manufacturers have powered speakers now, and all but the cheapest of them are pretty decent quality- look out for models from qsc, turbosound, jbl (pro, not home level), and Mackie (at the bottom of the list). These will happily play all night long at levels that your home theater speaker will struggle to reproduce! Many are not that expensive (look for the newest turbosound offerings, they're badass and pretty cheap too!)

Don't blow up your klipsch trying to impress friends, it's just not worth it!

 

As for quality- all but the best ($1500+ per box) pro-grade are going to sound descent and get loud, but your klipsch should sound much better, just not quite as loud in most instances!

Edited by Ashayinfla

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