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pat_in_dfw

WTB Forte passive radiator

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I picked up a pair of forte ones and overall the cabinet and drivers are in great condition. But one of the passive radiators has some weird discoloration on the dustcap but more importantly the cone is ripped. It's a very small tear but at the same time I think I would just rather get one that is in good condition to replace it with versus trying to patch this one.  

 

Where can I find replacement passive radiators? There is a couple listed on eBay but the dust caps on both of them look messed up and they would have to be repaired.

20180408_094342.jpg

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I could probably cut the dust cap off and find another one to replace it with but I'm actually more concerned about the small tear that you can see in it just slightly to the left of the dustcap

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You can order these direct from Klipsch now both the 12 and 15". You can also get a recone kit from Simply Speakers. If it were me I would dab a spot of black speaker cement on the tear and redo the dust cap. I used black speaker cement like Simply Speakers and others sell to repair one with about a dozen little cat claw marks in it and it did quite well.

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Can't find the old craigslist link (no screen save) post, but that is the second time a discolored/no color Forte dust cap has surfaced  here in the past couple weeks

 

That's not the same pair another forum member just had up for sale is it?

 

Those no pigment caps are not a defect or damaged - they left the factory that way - seen it on more than a few pairs (and other brands of speakers too) - the pulp slurry just never got the pigment or not enough of it anyway

 

I've had too many to count off colored caps and cones from the "norm" (that appeared to have suffered some sort of sun damage or injury when in fact they had not) - especially on vintage JBL, right out of the box - it happens and doesn't mean any defect but only that a given cone or cap was produced from a different batch of pulp

 

Klipsch (when P.W.K. was still alive) NEVER threw away anything that would still function "OK"

Klipsch Kg4s were the worst - tons of them left the factory with wrinkled dust caps

 

Just repair the one you have, it will function just fine and if you take your time that wound can be repaired in such a way as you will never notice it

 

Use isopropyl alcohol to just dampen the wound and press it back into to proper shape (and you may not even have to to that, try pressing it back in place dry first - I have just found that the alcohol relaxes the fibers so things stay in place until it dries - after the alcohol has thoroughly dried, paint the back of the wound with Titebond or similar, any good quality PVA will be fine - the fibers will absorb the glue and the repair will be as strong if not stronger than the paper

 

If the aesthetic of that dust cap bothers you and you are so inclined you can fix off colored black caps with REAL India ink and a soft brush - go easy and don't soak the paper - just put the color back - load the brush lightly and make ONE pass and allow to dry - then repeat IF and only if needed

Ink won't add any mass either

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Speaker cement or clear latex adhesive caulk on the cuts.  Do the hole cone in thinned with water thinned clear latex caulk (adhesive is fine), and spray paint the dust cap with black auto primer.  I would do both to match.  If the color doesn't come back with the clear caulk, you may try black latex caulk the same way.  Inexpensive if you will be keeping them and will help the longevity of the cones.

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2 hours ago, pzannucci said:

Speaker cement or clear latex adhesive caulk on the cuts.  Do the hole cone in thinned with water thinned clear latex caulk (adhesive is fine), and spray paint the dust cap with black auto primer.  I would do both to match.  If the color doesn't come back with the clear caulk, you may try black latex caulk the same way.  Inexpensive if you will be keeping them and will help the longevity of the cones.

It's best to NOT add mass (or as little as is possible) on any cone repairs - passive or dynamic

There is no good reason to add any material, or mass, to undamaged areas of the cone

Primer may make things look good but is not the best choice, although I too have used it in the past (repairs done decades ago)

Ink, or a permanent water based dye is preferable 

 

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24 minutes ago, analogman said:

It's best to NOT add mass (or as little as is possible) on any cone repairs - passive or dynamic

There is no good reason to add any material, or mass, to undamaged areas of the cone

Primer may make things look good but is not the best choice, although I too have used it in the past (repairs done decades ago)

Ink, or a permanent water based dye is preferable 

 

You are generally correct.  You would only add a couple of grams.  That couple of grams would be dup'd on the other speaker lowering the resonant value maybe a 1/2hz.  I will agree with your die might be good though the thin coat of latex, once water thinned, only brings back the color and seals it better.  Most evaporates away.  I am not talking a thick coat. :)  Been there and done that to match two different Heresy II woofer cones, obvious replacement.  Not noticeable or measurable difference.

 

The light spray of primer would add no appreciable weight and being primer, should stay there forever if there are no oils present.

 

Just options.

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There is no need to add any mass if you don't need too

Just because an "option" exists doesn't make it a good one

 

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Speaking from the Chorus II prospective I would be inclined to purchase, if available from Klipsch, two replacement passives. I figure this is overkill but I will not be parting with them and the repaired passive would have me thinking about it every time I cranked it up. Yes I am being a little OCD here but if I only replaced one I would continually wonder if there was an imbalance. I have successfully repaired speakers with the methods above but my Klipsch are for critical listening so they get the best possible treatment. My .02 cents worth.

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23 hours ago, analogman said:

Can't find the old craigslist link (no screen save) post, but that is the second time a discolored/no color Forte dust cap has surfaced  here in the past couple weeks

 

That's not the same pair another forum member just had up for sale is it?

 

Those no pigment caps are not a defect or damaged - they left the factory that way - seen it on more than a few pairs (and other brands of speakers too) - the pulp slurry just never got the pigment or not enough of it anyway

 

I've had too many to count off colored caps and cones from the "norm" (that appeared to have suffered some sort of sun damage or injury when in fact they had not) - especially on vintage JBL, right out of the box - it happens and doesn't mean any defect but only that a given cone or cap was produced from a different batch of pulp

 

Klipsch (when P.W.K. was still alive) NEVER threw away anything that would still function "OK"

Klipsch Kg4s were the worst - tons of them left the factory with wrinkled dust caps

 

Just repair the one you have, it will function just fine and if you take your time that wound can be repaired in such a way as you will never notice it

 

Use isopropyl alcohol to just dampen the wound and press it back into to proper shape (and you may not even have to to that, try pressing it back in place dry first - I have just found that the alcohol relaxes the fibers so things stay in place until it dries - after the alcohol has thoroughly dried, paint the back of the wound with Titebond or similar, any good quality PVA will be fine - the fibers will absorb the glue and the repair will be as strong if not stronger than the paper

 

If the aesthetic of that dust cap bothers you and you are so inclined you can fix off colored black caps with REAL India ink and a soft brush - go easy and don't soak the paper - just put the color back - load the brush lightly and make ONE pass and allow to dry - then repeat IF and only if needed

Ink won't add any mass either

That is some amazing advice. To fix the tiny puncture I had thought about taking the passive radiator off and applying a tiny dot of super glue on the back of it and then smearing it around to make it even and hopefully the fibers would grab and mesh back together that way. But dampening with water it is a pretty good idea as well.

 

I didn't realize the dust cap was just an ink issue but I think trying that ink would work really well. My wife actually has some of that ink already because I have some black jeans that routinely fade over time and she'll wash them every five or six months with the ink in the washer to re-dye them.

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I picked these up from a Craigslist ad was I was on a work trip down to Austin. If the guy was a member here and had them listed it was just a random coincidence and I didn't know about it.

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49 minutes ago, pat_in_dfw said:

That is some amazing advice. To fix the tiny puncture I had thought about taking the passive radiator off and applying a tiny dot of super glue on the back of it and then smearing it around to make it even and hopefully the fibers would grab and mesh back together that way. But dampening with water it is a pretty good idea as well.

 

I didn't realize the dust cap was just an ink issue but I think trying that ink would work really well. My wife actually has some of that ink already because I have some black jeans that routinely fade over time and she'll wash them every five or six months with the ink in the washer to re-dye them.

Use a good PVA or aliphatic resin glue ("carpenters glue") , NOT super glue to repair a wound in wood pulp (or anything paper)

Super glue is not very good at all on paper (although I have seen some recently marketed as such, i.e. formulated for paper)

I personally, for a number of reasons, one being bad experiences, do NOT use ANY cyanoacrylate adhesive for a paper repair or glue job, regardless of what marketing claims may say

Use a good wood glue 

The repair, if done right, will be as strong or stronger than the original spot

What you are describing is not ink, but rather dye

That should be fine too but it may not cover (hide) as well with a single application

If you do have to apply multiple coats GO SLOW and do NOT saturate your cap

Let things dry between coats until you get the color you want

Same applies for ink, as ink as well as dyes are not all created equal

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AND, don't be tempted to try and "brush" on the ink or dye - you can cause more harm than good to the texture of your cap or cone

You're not painting a house : - )

Just one light pass at the time and let it dry between passes

Light coats, as you also don't want anything wet getting down in the VC/former area (for active drivers obviously) 

Can't emphasis this enough

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52 minutes ago, pat_in_dfw said:

 But dampening with water it is a pretty good idea as well.

Use isopropyl alcohol, straight 

You want it damp long enough to reform if needed but you also want it to evaporate quickly

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8 hours ago, Ole Dollar said:

Speaking from the Chorus II prospective I would be inclined to purchase, if available from Klipsch, two replacement passives. I figure this is overkill but I will not be parting with them and the repaired passive would have me thinking about it every time I cranked it up. Yes I am being a little OCD here but if I only replaced one I would continually wonder if there was an imbalance. I have successfully repaired speakers with the methods above but my Klipsch are for critical listening so they get the best possible treatment. My .02 cents worth.

Passives are nothing but a means to box tuning bass propagation, same as a ported or reflex enclosure with a wee bit-o-assist with LF radiation 

Moving a box with a passive 6"s in a room either way can change things (perceived bass) - or ANY speaker for that matter (captain obvious remark : - )

Unless two passives are manufactured very close together in a production run, I'd wager if you took two and properly measured them all else being equal, the results would come up different between the two - in a lab or an anechoic room

But you'll never hear it

Then there's the matter of if the passive is on the front or the rear baffle

You'll hear room placement before you hear the difference between a passive with a wound repair and one without

Now passives that come with a variety of mass weight or discs that could be another matter but it's also a different discussion as well as endeavor

But again, even then, it's back to specific box tuning and so a manufacturer, like JBL who loved using passives for a couple of decades, could employ the same FRAME and cone size in any number of boxes and not have to make half a dozen different ones

As well as allow customers (home builders) the ability to tune their own box designs 

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@analogman I totally agree with you as placement is the bigger deal, thank you Captain Obvious. :)

 

Our Chorus II's were a wedding present to ourselves and as I mentioned my OCD would have me restore to newest condition as possible. I do have other speakers that I would gladly do the repairs above, especially if no factory parts are available. The speakers I have repaired do not reach the level of my Chorus or Jubilees so I did not really hear a difference in them after repair - just stopped further issues.

 

Sometimes I used fingernail polish for some cheap speaker tears like on Bose.

 

 

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