Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
dubs

Subwoofer setup

Recommended Posts

Any tip on how to setup a subwoofer for best sound? On sub itself and in the receiver too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Youthman said:

Google Sub Crawl

And be sure to invite family and friends over when you do so.  They won't think your weird at all.  In fact, make a game out of it, whomever finds the best spot wins a prize.  Maybe a cupcake or something.  Seriously though, it's a great place to start.  I'm adding sub #2 soon.  I have to admit not placed with the crawl.  Both will be up front, between the mains, as I envision where the source should come from.  Chris A, Youthman, and others will skewer me for saying so.  But, it's my placement of choice.  Even though REW is giving me a WTH??.   

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ACV92 said:

Youthman, and others will skewer me for saying so

Not me...I haven't done the sub crawl myself.  LOL  I know where my subs can go.   Not much physical room in my theater.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Youthman said:

Not me...I haven't done the sub crawl myself.  LOL  I know where my subs can go.   Not much physical room in my theater.

Agreed.  My room is a bit on the mid side, 500 sq. ft. but placement options are limited.  So, I default to 'perceived' placement.  Went and saw rock band Dorothy in a lounge here recently and they had 4, I wouldn't call them bass bins, but dual 18" ported enclosures just below the stage up front.  When the bass drum hit it went right through you, and probably a 5 building radius from that.  Dig your videos.  So, how do I acquire a set of RF-7II's in that beautiful cherry for free testing, like 10 years or so?  :D

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dubs said:

Any tip on how to setup a subwoofer for best sound? On sub itself and in the receiver too?

 

You have Audyssey XT32 in your Denon AVR X6400H, the best Audyssey!  My advice is:

 

1) Read both of the links that are at the end of this post.

 

2)Then set up the sub. 

 

3) Listen for a few weeks, then set up Audyssey.  Properly set up it is damn wonderful!  Avoid the one most common complaint about Audyssey (seemingly attenuated bass) by arbitrarily turning up the sub volume 3 - 9 dB, with the knob on the sub (you don't want the AVR sub out line driver to strain)  AFTER running Audyssey.   No, it's not defeating the purpose.  Audyssey smooths out the curve, which may cause you to wonder where your bass has gone, especially if you are used to very active room modes.  Then, by turning up the sub AFTER running Audyssey you will be conforming to the Harmon curve (which most people prefer), but will be turning up the lower end of a smooth curve, instead of a kinky one. 

 

Here are a couple of approximations of the Harmon Curve:

image.png.6ab282a27fe5c1b62d9860b2f695a69c.png

image.png.e4eb49da55c5213382e3719c94cc4f54.png

My personal preference, with good recordings, is to not droop the high end, just boost the low end.   I prefer selecting Audyssey Flat, and then boosting the sub.  If you run into a recording with slightly distorted highs, switching to Audyssey Reference (just plain Audyssey) will pull down the highs a bit (- 2 dB at 10K, - 6 dB at 20 K).  Some people like Dynamic EQ, and some don't.  I don't.  With it off, the tone controls are usable.

 

"Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

 

The sub one is by Mike Thomas, who knows his stuff ... The Audyssey one is chiefly by Keith Barnes who is equally well informed.  These materials are better than any modern manual I've seen (most are garbled and full of errors).

 

Have a cup of coffee, and allow about 45 minutes each.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @garyrc, the write-up was pretty tech. I followed a little of it. Probably need to just play around with the settings a little more. Any quick tips you got while I dissect the write-up u sent? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try, try, and try again :D  Had a JBL sub and it sounded like shi* ... replaced it with a 12: M&K sub and it sounded much more "musical."  Then got a 15" Dayton HF subwoofer kit. Did not even"hear" it till I noticed the floor shaking ... seems like the more $$ you spend, the less you "notice" the sub ... but the "musical sound" get's much better :) 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, dubs said:

Any quick tips you got

My tip is you don't want to "hear" the sub.  If setup properly the woofers will sound like they are much more powerful than usual.  You won't hear sound coming directly from the sub.

 

This is my go-to video for sub setup:

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear that. My whole house shakes wit these 2 new 15’s. I’ve blended them in good, and by changing my towers and center crossovers to 80hz it helped out quite a bit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dubs said:

My while house shakes wit These 2 new 15’s.

I wasn't sure if you had one or two subs.  Are you asking about placement?  It's good to remember that in general, subs don't like symmetry.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you have 4 subs, is the sub crawl really all that necessary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Schu said:

When you have 4 subs, is the sub crawl really all that necessary?

No, but EQ still is.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:05 PM, ACV92 said:

Seriously though, it's a great place to start.  I'm adding sub #2 soon.  I have to admit not placed with the crawl.  Both will be up front, between the mains, as I envision where the source should come from.  Chris A, Youthman, and others will skewer me for saying so.  But, it's my placement of choice.  Even though REW is giving me a WTH??.   

 

I agree that for listening to music and most audio, the sub(s) should be up front, and between or very near the main left and right speakers.  The subs are meant to integrate (seamlessly, if possible) with the main speakers, so they should be near them.  If you like realistic explosions and earthquakes, maybe put a second sub behind the listening position, but I've never tried that.

 

Many people are surprised when they first get a surround system to notice little sound coming from the surround speakers.  The sound engineer wants you to pay attention to the action on the screen in front of you, so naturally, that's where most of the sound comes from.  The occasional sounds of rain, or debris falling, or a helicopter flying in or out, are momentary attention getters, but they're over quickly, and you're back to watching what's happening next in front of you.

 

Getting back to sub placement, as wvu80 points out, symmetry should really be avoided.  Neatly placing the sub in a nice even arrangement with the main speakers, or even the room walls, makes it much easier for standing waves to form, or other bothersome peaks and dips that you really don't want.

 

Strong peaks and dips are surprising when you actually encounter them, and then they're not just a theoretical idea.  Years ago, before I got my main speakers set up along the long wall of the room, I had them close together, and the sub was in what looked like a neat and sensible location.  Then I passed by the armchair and was hit by really strong bass.  Then I passed out of it.  The peak existed in a small circular area, beside the armchair, and was only 1-1.5 feet across.  It was really weird.

 

Another location that didn't work had the sub in front of the picture window, facing down a long corridor.  Gotta make room for that 40-foot-long 20 Hz wave, right?  WRONG!  The sub set the window behind it to thrumming loud enough to give me an instant headache.  That was weird, too.

 

To sum up, in front is right, off-centre is right, and don't forget that subs roll off on the top end, just like regular speakers roll off on the bottom end.  This means that you want some overlap in the hand-off/crossover part of the frequency range.  If your speakers claim they go down to 50 Hz., don't set your sub to cut off at 50 Hz. and figure all will be well.  For example, La Scalas start to roll off at 100 Hz., although they do put out some sound down to 50 Hz. or so.  Accordingly, setting the sub hi-cut at 120 Hz. gives a good smooth frequency response, with minimal peaks and dips.

 

A perfectly flat frequency response is not possible, and maybe not even desirable, so get your mains and subs working fairly well together, and then sit back and enjoy your music.  It's pointless and needless to obsess over getting the perfect frequency response.  Sounding good to you is good enough.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2018 at 7:09 PM, dubs said:

Thanks @garyrc, the write-up was pretty tech. I followed a little of it. Probably need to just play around with the settings a little more. Any quick tips you got while I dissect the write-up u sent? 

 

Having one sub on each of two different walls (and not centered) sometimes helps.  Some people hide their subs in various creative ways.  Not seeing the sub may help avoid thinking some sound is localized in the sub.  But, sound quality should take precedence. 

 

On 4/26/2018 at 7:28 PM, Emile said:

Try, try, and try again :D  Had a JBL sub and it sounded like shi* ... replaced it with a 12: M&K sub and it sounded much more "musical."  Then got a 15" Dayton HF subwoofer kit. Did not even"hear" it till I noticed the floor shaking ... seems like the more $$ you spend, the less you "notice" the sub ... but the "musical sound" get's much better :) 

 

The range below 35Hz is mainly for incredible movie low frequency effects.  Very little music lives there, except pipe organ.  Sure, a regular piano goes down to 27.5 Hz (the Bösendorfer even lower), but these notes are rarely sounded, except when a pianist is fooling around with something like The Engulfed Cathedral.  So, for a sub to sound "musical" perhaps it should be especially good between 35 Hz and about 80 Hz.  Most subs should not be crossed-over above 80 Hz, because the clarity below 80 may suffer due, in part, to poorly controlled recordings, and, conceivably, increased modulation distortion, and the sub may announce its exact location if frequencies above 80 are not rolled off.

 

On 4/26/2018 at 7:32 PM, wvu80 said:

My tip is you don't want to "hear" the sub.  If setup properly the woofers will sound like they are much more powerful than usual.  You won't hear sound coming directly from the sub.----

 

On 4/26/2018 at 7:34 PM, dubs said:

I hear that. My whole house shakes wit these 2 new 15’s. I’ve blended them in good, and by changing my towers and center crossovers to 80hz it helped out quite a bit. 

 

A house shaking can be quite dramatic!  Bear in mind that you, and part of your house, may be in a bass heavy zone for a given frequency, and Audyssey may attenuate that bass bump.  Remember, you can turn the overall bass back up -- post Audyssey -- by turning up the knob on your subwoofer.  It is often cautioned that one shouldn't turn the trim for the sub that is on the AVR or the AVP up higher than -3 dB because that sub output on some AVRs can distort at higher levels.  For more bass beyond that, use the knob on the sub itself.  In our former house, certain bass notes would rattle the windows several rooms away.  In our newer house, Audyssey fixes that, and we can turn the overall bass up without rattling anything, anywhere, but moving the floor easily.

 

On 4/26/2018 at 9:35 PM, Islander said:

... Getting back to sub placement, as wvu80 points out, symmetry should really be avoided.  Neatly placing the sub in a nice even arrangement with the main speakers, or even the room walls, makes it much easier for standing waves to form, or other bothersome peaks and dips that you really don't want.

 

... To sum up, in front is right, off-centre is right ...

 

A perfectly flat frequency response is not possible, and maybe not even desirable, so get your mains and subs working fairly well together, and then sit back and enjoy your music.  It's pointless and needless to obsess over getting the perfect frequency response.  Sounding good to you is good enough.

 

 

image.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two great write-ups and explanations directly upstream ^^^  @Islander and @garyrc

 

Have your secretaries type that up and I will sign it.  B)

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@garyrc thank you. Very informative. I love the symmetry looks of my 2 subs up front, but after reading this I may try to place them in different areas. Is behind me good? The shape of my room is odd. It’s not idea(square). It’s kind of an open floor plan. I ran my audessy again, and it corrected a lot for me. I’ve also been playing with subwoofer level adjust in the receiver, on top of changing my subwoofer crossover level for my fronts and center to 80hz. I think I’ve finally got it best for both worlds. I will try moving around room a little. Thanks again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...