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babadono

Raw Jubes in da house

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4 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

A 1202 would be cool.  I have just the place for it.

Ask him if he has plans to make one of those, if so when.  

 

He is typically 5 steps ahead of where we are at any given time.

1 minute ago, Chris A said:

By the way, this patent has run out, according to the priority date.  In any case, it's over next year:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5898138

 

 

US5898138-2.png

Well then by all means go ahead.  Post your results.  Sell plans.  Advertise flatpacks.

 

I would suggest your consult with an IP attorney first.

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2 minutes ago, Chris A said:

You could also just use another woofer and be done with it.  The added cost is ~$80-$120.  Next year, you could take out the woofer and put in ports without legal interference.

You willing to indemnify anyone taking that advice?

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51 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

I'm doomed:P

Not yet:D

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43 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

He is typically 5 steps ahead of where we are at any given time.

Yea he is a PROFESSIONAL.

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Love DIY and have many projects on paper, but I won't be building anything anytime soon.  

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1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

It is illegal.  It's unethical.  It's immoral, and by gosh, it's downright un-American.  People can rationalize doing it any way they want to.

 

Putting all of that aside, simply ask Roy in a couple of weeks when you have him cornered if he can share whether/when a 1502 will be available and you know he will tell you if he can.  If it a long ways off ask him if he can help you build something scaled down.  If he can, he will (if he likes you and you are not too big a bonehead), if he can't, he can't and he will say so.  

 

 

 

--- In the past I noticed when Carl headed in Roy's direction he vanished. The chances of Roy letting himself be cornered by Carl are slim and none ---

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20 hours ago, Schu said:

Ask metropolis about the 1502 if the 18 is to large... it seems to me to be a better fit for a room in a home.

 

I had like 5 people lined up for one of those, not sure what the deal is.  

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4 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

If plans were available and it WASN'T illegal, I'd certainly build one.  I still don't understand why Roy used a cluster of small ports as opposed to one big one even after he explained it.  I'm assuming they act differently than a single port of the same volume.

 

Not sure either because if you use a port calculator and look at one 6" port or eight 2" ports which are similar in area, the port lengths are about the same.  

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4 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

It is illegal.  It's unethical.  It's immoral, and by gosh, it's downright un-American.  People can rationalize doing it any way they want to.

I agree

 

I had a long post typed out and decided to not press submit. It was for someone who buys hats way bigger than needed feeling they fit.

 

 

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5 hours ago, richieb said:

 

--- In the past I noticed when Carl headed in Roy's direction he vanished. The chances of Roy letting himself be cornered by Carl are slim and none ---

You ever notice you never see @Chief bonehead and ? @CECAA850 at the same time?  

 

Hmmmmm, coincidence?  

 

Meanwhile, back at the lab . . . .

  • Haha 2

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16 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

You ever notice you never see @Chief bonehead and ? @CECAA850 at the same time?  

 

Hmmmmm, coincidence?  

 

Meanwhile, back at the lab . . . .

 

-- Hmmm - Chief Baldhead - has a nice ring to it -- 

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19 hours ago, babadono said:

Thanks Chris. I did not want to bother you until I get the laptop. I have just been turning all the bass up with a low shelf filter on my mixer. i have control of the freq and amplitude of the shelf.

How do they sound?  Once you get them into one end the room the soundstage should be huge, enveloping the entire end of the room.   The center phantom image should be as if there is a center loudspeaker that's there (i.e., very strong center image).  The acoustic presence of vocalists should be as if they are in the room and you can hear the inrush of air in front of each vocal passage.

 

I've used the 2012 hybrid SACD version of Norah Jones' Not Too Late (either the DSD layer or the PCM layer) as a quick reference for hearing these effects.  My personal version of the tracks have been demastered, but the tracks as-is on disc are quite good.  Only the bass roll-off is really evident, and a little too much energy that's been cranked mostly in the 500Hz to 3 kHz band. 

 

I've found that Jubs can fool you with poorer recordings in that you don't really hear what they can do with a lot of old favorite albums, until you pull out a really good recording...and you can't believe what you're listening to.  The clean cymbal transients on the best jazz recordings should be extremely clean and crisp, much like the real thing.  Again I've found that the recordings of the last 10-15 years, specifically on SACD are the best ones. 

 

Chris

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58 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I've found that Jubs can fool you with poorer recordings in that you don't really hear what they can do with a lot of old favorite albums, until you pull out a really good recording...and you can't believe what you're listening to.  The clean cymbal transients on the best jazz recordings should be extremely clean and crisp, much like the real thing. 

Chris

 

I agree with this.  I listen to a lot of live recordings of Grateful Dead which many of these recordings are not very good.  But that's the music I like.  When I go for a really good recording I can really appreciate how good the Jubs can sound.  I am using pure Roy setup with 691s, xilica, and Roy's settings.  I also have 684 subs in use.

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35 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

I listen to a lot of live recordings of Grateful Dead which many of these recordings are not very good.  But that's the music I like.

There was a portion of the Soundbreaking: Stories from the Cutting Edge of Recorded Music PBS series where they showed film footage of the recording bootleggers first scattered about the audience then later in their own area of the audience recording (something that was tolerated openly by the band, as mentioned by Mickey Hart).  He said that was probably the smartest thing that the band did--to allow anyone to record whatever they wanted during concerts.  Apparently there are literally 100s (perhaps 1000s) of different recordings out there still making their rounds.  I assume this is one reason why the band did so well and had such staying power, even though their radio time was not that good.

 

Chris

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2 hours ago, Chris A said:

How do they sound?  Once you get them into one end the room the soundstage should be huge, enveloping the entire end of the room.   The center phantom image should be as if there is a center loudspeaker that's there (i.e., very strong center image).  The acoustic presence of vocalists should be as if they are in the room and you can hear the inrush of air in front of each vocal passage.

 

I've used the 2012 hybrid SACD version of Norah Jones' Not Too Late (either the DSD layer or the PCM layer) as a quick reference for hearing these effects.  My personal version of the tracks have been demastered, but the tracks as-is on disc are quite good.  Only the bass roll-off is really evident, and a little too much energy that's been cranked mostly in the 500Hz to 3 kHz band. 

 

I've found that Jubs can fool you with poorer recordings in that you don't really hear what they can do with a lot of old favorite albums, until you pull out a really good recording...and you can't believe what you're listening to.  The clean cymbal transients on the best jazz recordings should be extremely clean and crisp, much like the real thing.  Again I've found that the recordings of the last 10-15 years, specifically on SACD are the best ones. 

 

Chris

 

--- I realize I'm swimming upstream here as my Jubes use passive networks, no outside EQ, but I get every bit of what you describe above - a center image as if a center speaker is involved and vocals with easy to delineate inhales/exhales. The striking of the hammer with piano, easy to hear piano pedal movements, etc. Aside from outside electronic "help" I don't think it hurts to have reasonable good, extremely quiet gear feeding your boxes(speakers). 

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You're not swimming upstream.  What you get with the DSP crossover is the ability to EQ flat and a bit more timbre neutrality in the 300-600 Hz region in time aligning the bass bin to the K-402, but basically you get everything else described above (and trust me, there's a lot of EQ already mastered into your recordings that isn't very flat--that you may not be aware of). 

 

If you're willing to use something upstream of the preamp to EQ them flatter (there are software applications that will help on PCs, etc.), or the various "room correction" hardware boxes that you can get from places like Dirac, etc., then you're getting probably 95-98% of the total enchilada.  Mark F. has done this on one or more of his setups I believe, as well as other Jub owners that go the passive crossover route. 

 

Chris

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I don't want to muck up this thread.  Right now I am enjoying the Klipsch endorsed digital solution with my Jubs.  However, I am giving a shot at converting them to full analog to TRY that, reduce the complexity (amps) and try to find more detail.  I spent thousands already so I want to completely understand which method I prefer.  There are trade offs to both.

 

The method of analog which I have used for many years with other K402 and 510 systems..........and that was tested by Roy comparing to the digital solution when several of us were in the Hope Lab is this.........

ALK extreme slope networks in either 2 or 3 way specifically developed for Jubilees.  No EQ in the networks.

An analog graphical EQ on the tape monitor loop of a preamp or otherwise connected.  I have a DBX-1231 for now.  But replacing with Ashly GQX 3102.

 

I have already over the years had such success with this that I tossed another $2K in just to try it with my Jubs.  It takes months to get these networks because I just could not get around to building them myself.  So I have not tried this yet.

 

I miss using 1 amp.  I have 4 amps in my current Jub system and 5 more in my MCM setup.  I would like less.

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On 5/1/2018 at 6:06 PM, babadono said:

Thanks again Trent. You know there is just something about having them in my own room and with very familiar music. Those 402 horns are just amazing. But I want more bass. And I know everybody's going to say "you need a sub or two" but first I want to get the bass bins dialed in to the best of their capabilities in my room.

 BTW do the level meters on your Xilica ever show anything?

 

Sorry I missed this...

 

If I turn it up loud I see the first green lights. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I think commercial pre units and amplifiers have higher line-level input where you would actually see all four lights as you turned it up.  Since I use a home Pre and home amps I barely see one green line-level light when turned up loud.

 

Trent

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