Tube amp upgrades

[derrickdj1]

Tube amp upgrade which can even be applied to SS amp, is it really worth it.  I see so many people doing thing when they purchase a used or new amp.  They change the stock tubes, caps,  It is very appealing to think that I can morph this amp into a whole new creature, just change this and change that, not hard to do.  These changes are suppose to yield a major improvement in tone and presentation that yields audio bliss.

 

Not that easy without considering the speakers.  Some speakers can benefit in rolling back the highs and some actually need a boost in the highs.  So, these  or any upgrades need to take into account the speakers and setup.  What works for one may be totally wrong for someone else. Even tube rolling falls into this scenario.  There is no best tube.  It may work well with speaker X and not speaker Y.

 

I will say swapping preamp tubes do little harm and can have a major benefit.  What major mods do you think make a real difference.  Some people change resistor to lower brightness other strive for more headroom.

 

 

[Schu]

13 hours ago, derrickdj1 said:

 These changes are suppose to yield a major improvement in tone and presentation that yields audio bliss.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this ^ is a conclusion... perhaps some may have this misguided view, I do not.

 

Personally I think it's a process that makes incremental changes and "tailors" the sound to one's PERSONAL tastes.

 

Case in point, I just purchased upgraded power cables for my magnequest VRD's as a "dress up" exercise not really expecting any "major improvement", and yet there was a very noticeable change in sound. Whether these power cables changed dampening factor or changed the bias point (I measured) I really don't know, but what I do know is that low frequencies were greatly increased and mids were more forward... BUT, overall the changes were NOT desirable for my tastes. The increased bottom end was nice, but it changed the overall balance of the image and overwhelmed the mids and uppers... it's not bad, just different. 

 

I went back to original power cables.

[derrickdj1]

I even wonder with some of the more expensive amp, should you roll the tubes.  I would like to think the tubes that come with an amp have been selectively picked to work best with that particular amp within reason and cost.  For example, amp A and B are EL 34 tube amp and use same preamp tube.  Amp B has a tendency to be bright where as amp A lacks some midrange performance.  Tubes can be picked to damp or pickup each of these area. 

 

I Know that most preamp tubes and power tubes of the same designation have many similarities but, the cost can be vastly different.  Is the cost benefit in the tube amp upgrade worth and are we making many of the decision without enough info.  No amp maker tells you which type of tube should be use except for PrimaLuna.  PrimaLuna does not recommend tube rolling.

[richieb]

 

--- I think Shu hit the nail on the head - for many listeners "difference" and " improvement" are interchangeable moving pieces in the evolution of a system. With nearly every change made comes a difference - an improvement? sometimes yes, sometime no. And if you spend enough you can be " fooled" to thinking the difference is an improvement. The better the rig becomes the more difficult true improvements come which = more expensive.

[Schu]

One of the biggest draws to a tube amp is the ability to customize the sound to the end users taste by cap upgrades, tube changes or perhaps power supply swaps within a circuit s design.

 

Of course this isn't the most cost effective way to make a change in sound, but it does change the sound.

 

I don't love the fact that I choose to buy a consumable (tubes) to try and capture a sound, but finding a great combination of tubes is very satisfying... and the trouble is, the exact same tube made at roughly the same period by the same manufacturer can sound different.

 

I think we've broached the subject of whether or not we are listening to music or if we are in fact listening to equipment... I think it's a bit of both for me personally. I am so impressed with the performance of certain systems that it's almost impossible to not be a bit of an "equipment listener".

 

If folks listen to some proponents, it's more important to save money (lowest common denominator) and be satisfied with an acceptable level of performance than it is to seek the depth of the "rabbit hole". 

[thebes]

On 5/6/2018 at 1:12 AM, derrickdj1 said:

Tube amp upgrade which can even be applied to SS amp, is it really worth it. 

As applied to SS, it's much more tricky.

 

The commonalities between the two, as far as upgrades go, is freshening the caps. That is if you are talking about older gear.  I've never replaced caps on older gear, which is pretty much all that I own, without a very noticeable improve in sound.

 

That's never, ever, ever.

 

Everything else is up for grabs. I personally love tube rolling, others, like Maynard, feel that you are changing the operating parameters of the circuit with tube rolling, but I'm paraphrasing, at best, and I'm sure he could explain it in more detail.

 

The great change in SS circuits usually involves employing newer, or more modern, transistors and that is a whole kettle of worms.  You had better really know your stuff, or have solid advice from others, before you take that path. Way more complicated than swapping out a tube.

 

So, IMO, no. Other than caps there is little for a hobbyist to successfully do to an existing SS design to make it better.

 

 

[kaiser SET say]

I've always loved your candor Marty, have not been in here in some time but great to see some of the not too old faithful remain! Cheers

[thebes]

Why thank you for your kind comments. It's always a pleasure to have you stop by.

[jkull]

On 5/6/2018 at 6:35 PM, derrickdj1 said:

I even wonder with some of the more expensive amp, should you roll the tubes.  I would like to think the tubes that come with an amp have been selectively picked to work best with that particular amp within reason and cost.  For example, amp A and B are EL 34 tube amp and use same preamp tube.  Amp B has a tendency to be bright where as amp A lacks some midrange performance.  Tubes can be picked to damp or pickup each of these area. 

 

I Know that most preamp tubes and power tubes of the same designation have many similarities but, the cost can be vastly different.  Is the cost benefit in the tube amp upgrade worth and are we making many of the decision without enough info.  No amp maker tells you which type of tube should be use except for PrimaLuna.  PrimaLuna does not recommend tube rolling.

 

 

Yes. Circuits are built around the implementation of particular valves. They seldom will come equipped with the optimum valves. Example. I’d be willing to say any amp utilizing a shuguang/psvane 12ax7 can benefit by using instead, vintage telefunken, rca, or mullards. When talking other tubes by shuguang/pavane, like an 845 or 805 triode, sourcing better built ones will still yield improvement but not as vast of an improvement over the stock ones as their 845and 805 tubes are much better than for instance their 12ax7.

[CECAA850]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:02 PM, thebes said:

Everything else is up for grabs. I personally love tube rolling, others, like Maynard, feel that you are changing the operating parameters of the circuit with tube rolling, but I'm paraphrasing, at best, and I'm sure he could explain it in more detail.

Heard from Maynard lately?  He hasn't been on the forum in about a month.

[thebes]

He's bogged down with personal stuff. Nothing of a bad nature, just some things that are taking up all his time.

 

Life outside of the Forum, dontcha know.

[CECAA850]

10 minutes ago, thebes said:

He's bogged down with personal stuff. Nothing of a bad nature, just some things that are taking up all his time.

 

Life outside of the Forum, dontcha know.

As long as he's alright.

[Guest wdecho]

I actually saw a post by him a couple of days ago but as thebes said outside matters are consuming his time right now and the matter is not in a negative way. 

[thebes]

He's fine.  Probably cogitating a tube circuit breakthrough as I type.