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Volcanic action in Hawaii.


Shiva

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On 5/16/2018 at 7:29 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

This same reasoning applies to beach and river-front homes.  FEMA subsidizes flood insurance so that rich people can buy in risky zones.

 

"A Congressional Budget Office study found the median value of an NFIP insured home is about twice that of American homes in general. About 80 percent of NFIP households are in counties that rank in the top income quintile. As of 2012, 42 percent of NFIP properties took out the maximum $250,000 in coverage, reflecting the fact that properties near water tend to be more expensive than properties in general."

 

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/08/08/hidden-subsidy-rich-flood-insurance-000495

Well it's a bit more nuanced than that.  The National Flood Insurance was created in response to the fact that the insurers wouldn't provide coverage, but at its inception most of the areas were poor farm communities.  Of course, many of these farm communities were on water and as time went on and beach and water destinations grew it became more of a subsidy for vacation communities, and waterfront investor/owners.

 

Then you have places like Houston with no zoning laws and things get trickier.  A lot people don't even realize they are living in a  flood plane.  You can bet the subdivision builders didn't tell them either. Sure people living on a river usually know not to build by the riverbank, but who buys a place when you can look up and see lava spouting from a mountain right over your head.  Idjits. That's who.

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7 hours ago, thebes said:

Then you have places like Houston with no zoning laws and things get trickier.  A lot people don't even realize they are living in a  flood plane.  You can bet the subdivision builders didn't tell them either. Sure people living on a river usually know not to build by the riverbank, but who buys a place when you can look up and see lava spouting from a mountain right over your head.  Idjits. That's who.

I'm not a developer, but I don't think it works like that.  We might not have zoning, but we do have construction standards.  IIRC, I believe there are requirements with respect to the elevation of residential construction.  Example:  http://abc13.com/harris-county-new-building-regulations-post-harvey-/2743685/

 

We also have retention pond requirements imposed on developers to minimize adverse effects from surface water run-off resulting from construction.  

 

The flood zones are re-drawn over time as events occur.  

 

Who buys on a beach when it's well known that we have hurricane season every year?  People with money and subsidized insurance.  That's who.  If left to their own perils, they might not be so inclined.

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Don't have any idea if the big island will grow in size, bit the elevation of places is getting a couple of feet higher day by day.

@Shiva that is a hellish landscape.

Buy that delicious Kona now, it might have already gone up since last month. The plants  might be incinerating right now.

I haven't afforded any of that $60 lb coffee in a long time though!

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Just to put things in a little more perspective,  the Big Island, where this action is happening, is over 4000 sq. miles in size.  I heard it said, that this is only affecting about 5% of the land, though of course the air quality downwind, is another thing.  Does look a bit like Armageddon in the images, though.

   

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Yep but that is how those kind of islands "grow"

Beans are kinda low, so I got my yearly splurge of Kona Mountain Coffee headed this way. It's not $50+ like it was a couple years ago when I passed on it. They are halfway across the Isle from Kilauea.

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On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 6:29 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

This same reasoning applies to beach and river-front homes.  FEMA subsidizes flood insurance so that rich people can buy in risky zones.

 

"A Congressional Budget Office study found the median value of an NFIP insured home is about twice that of American homes in general. About 80 percent of NFIP households are in counties that rank in the top income quintile. As of 2012, 42 percent of NFIP properties took out the maximum $250,000 in coverage, reflecting the fact that properties near water tend to be more expensive than properties in general."

 

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/08/08/hidden-subsidy-rich-flood-insurance-000495

I'm far from rich, I'm in the house that was affordable at the time. The rich kids drove the value of my house up to 275K, money got tight and now it's valued around 150.  The house was considered part of a 100 year flood plain. Since they developed the property upriver, and we've been flooded in, 2017, 2013, 2007...…Now, I am considered to be in a 1% flood plain

Now, I am considered to be in a 1% flood plain. Flood insurance was 900/year in '13, now it's 1900 four years later. Neighbors on both sides don't have flood insurance because they don't have a mortgage. They keep getting flooded and just ***** about it

 

Mark

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

Who buys on a beach when it's well known that we have hurricane season every year?  People with money and subsidized insurance.  That's who.  If left to their own perils, they might not be so inclined.

I haven't kept up with how many lives lost or financial damage done but any common sense methodology on how to cover the costs seem on par with any given day we have a mass shooting.....I guess we need to ask what is  the best way to address the inevitable and which is going to affect more lives? Do we want Government or Insurance to subsidize the inevitable and I am not trying to be judgmental on any fronts. 

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The lava has made it to the Ocean.  One can take a tour. Though, when lava hits the seawater, particulates of volcanic glass and hydrochloric acid boil into the air, just make sure you stay upwind, you should be fine. 

 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:43 AM, thebes said:

A lot people don't even realize they are living in a  flood plane. 

But the mortgage companies do.  They make it mandatory to carry flood insurance if you're in a flood plane as a condition of financing.  If you let it lapse, they'll provide it and charge you for it.

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2 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

But the mortgage companies do.  They make it mandatory to carry flood insurance if you're in a flood plane as a condition of financing.  If you let it lapse, they'll provide it and charge you for it.

 

The flood plain is subjective in my area. The Corps Of Engineers established it and the city changed it to suit their whims.

JJK

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1 hour ago, JJkizak said:

 

The flood plain is subjective in my area. The Corps Of Engineers established it and the city changed it to suit their whims.

JJK

 

 

Interesting that you say "subjective". The envelope of the floodplain is clearly established in FEMA maps. I don't specialize in development, but as far as know, FEMA (or God) defines the floodplain, and it cannot be altered without consent of the land owner........ or developers with corrupt politicians in their pockets.

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1 hour ago, Gilbert said:

 

 

Interesting that you say "subjective". The envelope of the floodplain is clearly established in FEMA maps. I don't specialize in development, but as far as know, FEMA (or God) defines the floodplain, and it cannot be altered without consent of the land owner........ or developers with corrupt politicians in their pockets.

 

I agree with you. But my city politicians do not.

JJK

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5 hours ago, JJkizak said:

 

I agree with you. But my city politicians do not.

JJK

 

yea, happens all the time with politically savvy wealthy developers.....  in the 1980's, then San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros was in bed with a wealthy land developer Ray Ellison. Ray was able to get whatever he wanted; Zoning changes, flood plan changes, routing of water lines, etc. whatever Ray wanted, Henry saw too it that he got it. Ray built crap houses, foundations with no reinf., literally. His neighborhood developments are some of the worst in San Antonio. He did it all with the help ($$$) of Henry Cisneros, who went off to become Secretary of HUD under the Clinton Admin.

 

 

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11 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

But the mortgage companies do.  They make it mandatory to carry flood insurance if you're in a flood plane as a condition of financing.  If you let it lapse, they'll provide it and charge you for it.

 

6 hours ago, JJkizak said:

 

I agree with you. But my city politicians do not.

JJK

 

30 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

 

yea, happens all the time with politically savvy wealthy developers.....  in the 1980's, then San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros was in bed with a wealthy land developer Ray Ellison. Ray was able to get whatever he wanted; Zoning changes, flood plan changes, routing of water lines, etc. whatever Ray wanted, Henry saw too it that he got it. Ray built crap houses, foundations with no reinf., literally. His neighborhood developments are some of the worst in San Antonio. He did it all with the help ($$$) of Henry Cisneros, who went off to become Secretary of HUD under the Clinton Admin.

 

 

All of this is true.

After katrina FEMA wanted everything remapped, they left it up to the individual county to decide if FEMA was to do it or the county. Our county was the only one to want to do it themselves, they hired someone to do it, probably cheaper (kickback) and this company messed it up.

 

After they redid the map we were in a flood zone but not any year previously,  the mortgage company forced placed flood insurance even with very little owed. We fought this for years, even after going to city meetings and raising hell the most we could get was the city officials to come out and see the problem. They could see it because a huge flat cement bridge was installed 5 years earlier, we asked them while standing in our driveway where was the bridge, did you drive over it to get here ? He wasn't sure so he looked at the map and said the bridge is over here about 500' while pointing in the wrong direction, we live on a corner so it should be easy to figure out where the bridge is compared to the street on the map, we told them get in the car and go see. They came back and said OH we need to fix this, it's not like homeowners moved the branch and bridge crossing it, never heard back from them.

Took it to everyone including FEMA and Homeland Security who is also included, it took a really bent out of shape insurance agent to help and we finally got out of the flood insurance with a statement of map amendment to cover everyones butt. The actual map is still wrong, you can see the problem, they did not remap it they just overlayed over the old map and copied it. It was laid over about 1500' off which is about 1/2' on the map I guess.

 

The cost us thousands but the really bad part is people buying in the flood zone was scheduled to not need insurance at all and could take a serious loss when it floods. And it will flood the area I am talking about, it is called Pococian swamp on the correct map and people have built there, it's just a matter of time.

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you guys are sort of thinking the same direction I am

 

I wondered about the Antarctic ice shelf after the tsunami  ...

 How does this event figure into climate change?

 

Hope everyone that was in the way isn't now. Ironic that a lava flow closes the geothermal generating station ...

 

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