Klipsch Subwoofers lacking the 'WOW" FACTOR

[RLink]

I have owned a few Klipsch Subwoofers over the years and the RT 12D Digitally Controlled Subwoofer being one of my favorites.  I now own the R-115SW and It sounds great especially for the money but, it lacks the "WOW" factor if you know what I mean.  No Digital LIGHTING or DCS interface , No Wood Veneer, just a very tiny green light in the front that shows you it's on.

 

Just hoping that Klipsch will come out with something along the lines of previous generations that had all of the above.   Maybe part of the Heritage line to be made in Arkansas............?

[Ceptorman]

There is a RF7lll based 15" sub in the works, with all the on board electronics.

[ClaudeJ1]

4 hours ago, RLink said:

I have owned a few Klipsch Subwoofers over the years and the RT 12D Digitally Controlled Subwoofer being one of my favorites.  I now own the R-115SW and It sounds great especially for the money but, it lacks the "WOW" factor if you know what I mean.  No Digital LIGHTING or DCS interface , No Wood Veneer, just a very tiny green light in the front that shows you it's on.

 

Just hoping that Klipsch will come out with something along the lines of previous generations that had all of the above.   Maybe part of the Heritage line to be made in Arkansas............?

You want at SONIC "Wow" factor??? Get an 1802 instead of these "mickey mouse" direct radiator distortion machines.

[RLink]

Nice to hear that Ceptorman...............looking forward to it....thanks.

[ClaudeJ1]

On 5/17/2018 at 9:47 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

You want at SONIC "Wow" factor??? Get an 1802 instead of these "mickey mouse" direct radiator distortion machines.

Or build a full or tapped HORN SUBWOOFER. Lots of plans available free or cheap.

[joessportster]

 

On 5/19/2018 at 12:09 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Or build a full or tapped HORN SUBWOOFER. Lots of plans available free or cheap.

 

Claude please explain the advantages of tapped / horn sub ? also is the image below a decent example ?

[joessportster]

On 5/19/2018 at 12:09 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Or build a full or tapped HORN SUBWOOFER. Lots of plans available free or cheap.

Also what could 1 expect the outcome to be if you were to maintain design (above) but change some of the dimensions in  order to use a larger / different driver. Not trying to Hi-Jack your thread here. am building a couple subs myself and am honestly interested in how / why the tapped horn design would be better. The design above looks pretty much straight forward, Not terribly hard to build.

[CECAA850]

Yes, that's a tapped horn.  Typically they're more efficient that a front loaded horn as you get the benefit of having the output of the rear of the driver as well.  The down side is that as a rule they won't play as cleanly as high as a front loaded horn.

[CECAA850]

3 hours ago, joessportster said:

Also what could 1 expect the outcome to be if you were to maintain design (above) but change some of the dimensions in  order to use a larger / different driver. Not trying to Hi-Jack your thread here. am building a couple subs myself and am honestly interested in how / why the tapped horn design would be better. The design above looks pretty much straight forward, Not terribly hard to build.

Horn subs are really picky about driver parameters.  If you start changing drivers and horn dimensions, all bets are off as far as performance is concerned.  You'd need to be very familiar with the hornresp program prior to changing anything.

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, joessportster said:

 

 

Claude please explain the advantages of tapped / horn sub ? also is the image below a decent example ?

 

For a given box size, a tapped horn outperforms a bass reflex and is smaller than a full horn, like the F-20 or Tuba HT. A tapped horn is only good for 2 octaves vs. almost 3 for a full horn. My favorite is still the original 30x60 inch "Coffee Table Sub" I built about 6 years ago, using a LAB12 driver from Eminence. If you want to spend less, the JBL GTO 1214 is even cheaper if you can find one. Both drivers ruler flat from a bit less than 20 Hz. up to 60 Hz. in a tapped horn, which can be built with 7 or 11 pieces of 3/4 plywood, depending on what shape you want. I still own 2 tapped horns of different shapes and sizes and plan to build 2 more. I also had 2 of the "Super Spud" DTS-10's that went down to 10 Hz. in my living room in Indianapolis, when I briefly lived there. Statistically, there are VERY FEW Blue Rays that contain anything below 20 Hz., so that capability was rarely used and a waste of cubic feet, IMHO. By the same token, a B string on a 5 or 6 string electric bass only goes to 31 Hz, for music. So I find that digging down to 20 is just fine for movies AND music (a great compromise and optimization of money and cubic feet). I have plans for many of them, so let me know if you want them. I've included the "coffee table one" as a start below. BTW, it does NOT require an inductor. I tried it and it's a waste of money and amplifier power (this thing is about 95 db/watt and I rarely used more than 2.5 Watts to shake the pictures on my walls).

[ClaudeJ1]

53 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Horn subs are really picky about driver parameters.  If you start changing drivers and horn dimensions, all bets are off as far as performance is concerned.  You'd need to be very familiar with the hornresp program prior to changing anything.

Agreed. You can't just willy nilly change drivers. If just won't work.........or work as well as the correct one.

[joessportster]

Really appreciate the clarifications / info, I would like to see more plans perhaps there could be a thread on subwoofer designs, or PM me either way thank you both Claude / Carl

[CECAA850]

Lots of build threads and plans here.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1104368-master-index-diy-subwoofer-projects.html

[SWL]

Yeah, get a horn loaded sub and you'll be saying "Wow" all day long.......

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[jason str]

4 hours ago, CECAA850 said:

Yes, that's a tapped horn.  Typically they're more efficient that a front loaded horn as you get the benefit of having the output of the rear of the driver as well.  The down side is that as a rule they won't play as cleanly as high as a front loaded horn.

 

The other downside to the tapped horn design is higher distortion, the exposed driver causes this unlike a fully horn loaded design where distortion is filtered out through the folded horn itself.

 

Every design has advantages and disadvantages but horn loading is as good as it gets.

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, jason str said:

 

The other downside to the tapped horn design is higher distortion, the exposed driver causes this unlike a fully horn loaded design where distortion is filtered out through the folded horn itself.

 

Every design has advantages and disadvantages but horn loading is as good as it gets.

 

 

Actually, the tapped horn is LESS EFFICIENT than the full horn AND can have higher distortion unless you bandpass filter it, which is easy to do. All horn subs totally STOMP direct radiator subs, unless you have a roomful of those with kilowatts of amplifier power and the highest distortion of all. Not my cup of tea. Horns forever!! BTW, I just sold a pair of THTLP subs  (6 ft. tall with an 18x24 footprint, like a double high Cornwall) to another forum member because I needed to go to a very slim cabinet in a way smaller room. Going from 18 foot wide walls down to 11 is not fun for a speaker dude!!

 

 

[AHall]

4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Actually, the tapped horn is LESS EFFICIENT than the full horn AND can have higher distortion unless you bandpass filter it, which is easy to do. All horn subs totally STOMP direct radiator subs, unless you have a roomful of those with kilowatts of amplifier power and the highest distortion of all. Not my cup of tea. Horns forever!! BTW, I just sold a pair of THTLP subs  (6 ft. tall with an 18x24 footprint, like a double high Cornwall) to another forum member because I needed to go to a very slim cabinet in a way smaller room. Going from 18 foot wide walls down to 11 is not fun for a speaker dude!!

 

 

Ever wonder how a tuba ht low profile would blend with an 1802? I bought the plans before I got the 1802. I think it may be advantageous to help smooth out the response with a second sub. I’m new to the high end and horn stuff though. 

[ClaudeJ1]

10 hours ago, AHall said:

Ever wonder how a tuba ht low profile would blend with an 1802? I bought the plans before I got the 1802. I think it may be advantageous to help smooth out the response with a second sub. I’m new to the high end and horn stuff though. 

they are both horns of a slightly different design and purpose, but they are similar enough to work together well. The 1802 is more powerful, but a THTLP would be a great, lower cost, addition to a room to smooth out the room modes. One in front and one in the rear wall centers of the room would do it. Been there, done that. It works very well.

[AHall]

51 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

they are both horns of a slightly different design and purpose, but they are similar enough to work together well. The 1802 is more powerful, but a THTLP would be a great, lower cost, addition to a room to smooth out the room modes. One in front and one in the rear wall centers of the room would do it. Been there, done that. It works very well.

 

This is great to hear. Just what I planned on. Although part of me has a craving to utilize that space at an attemp to get flat to 10hz. I know this system isn’t designed for that though. 

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, AHall said:

 

This is great to hear. Just what I planned on. Although part of me has a craving to utilize that space at an attemp to get flat to 10hz. I know this system isn’t designed for that though. 

All 10 Hz. response did for me is to vibrate stuff down the hall, and even then VERY rarely, since examining the graphical data on AVS sites shows that the preponderance of output is above 20 Hz. for 99% of the movies. I find it wasteful to design and execute a 10 Hz. response. Good enough is good enough. Most cheap, direct radiators on the market barely reach 30 Hz. so doing 20 Hz. with a horn and 120+ db output EFFICIENCY, to me is the best way to OPTIMIZE sound reproductions. 10-20 Hz. response is EXPENSIVE sound effects that basically test the structural integrity of your house, second only in stupidity to BURP test of a van full of direct radiators pumping out decibel levels that rival a 747 jet a take off. Mega stupidity has different levels also.