Arena concerts?

[DizRotus]

Last evening we attended the Hall and Oates concert at the new Little Caesars Arena (home of Detroit Red Wings and Detroit Pistons). The tickets were free, as my son works there.  He estimated the crowd at 10,000.  The stage was configured at one end of the arena with seating all around, at all levels, with folding chairs on the floor (the main ice is gone for the summer).  The sound engineers were set up on the floor at the far end of the rink between where the blue line and the goal would be.  We were seated to one side about twenty rows up between center line and blue line; excellent seats for a hockey game, but not so good for a concert, perhaps.

 

The concert was worth the money (free), the performances were good, the crowd was energized, but, IMO, the sound was very poor.  Is there any hope for good sound in such spaces?  I’m interested in what others have to say, especially Michael, @colterphoto1.

 

IMO, there was too much bass.  It was extremely difficult to understand the vocals.  My wife said the “bass muddied the vocals.”  You could feel the punch of low bass.  But there was too much “van at an intersection bass.”

 

The opening act was Kandace Springs.  She plays keyboards and sings with accompaniment from a bass player and drummer.  She seems talented, but the sound system did her no favors. A bass solo was unbearable.

 

Next was Train, which played for an hour.  The sound seemed better, possibly due to the larger scale of the group.  Hall and Oates played for two hours.  Whatever you might think of them, they had a lot of hits.

 

Michael, I have several questions:

 

• Did the same sound people probably work the boards for all three acts on this tour;
• Is it possible the sound was better on the floor where the boards were set up;
• Can the performers get a good sense of the sound quality; 
• Is it even possible to get good sound in such a venue; and
• What is the maximum size crowd for excellent sound.

 

Even with free tickets the evening cost about $100.  I’d be very disappointed if I’d also paid for tickets.  It would be interesting to hear the same concert down Woodward Ave. at the Fox theater.  I’m sure it would have sounded much better.

 

 

[oldtimer]

From my experience at large venues placement is everything.  For the most part the sound will be less than satisfactory, but there can be sweet spots even in a stadium.  Usually the closer to the stage the better.  Do the acoustics math (I never really could).  The larger the venue the more chances there are for all kinds of bad influences, and not just your friend that pulls out a pipe you thought had been lost somehow but there it is, you ahole.

[dtel]

For the most part I have had the same experience in arenas, it seems for a pretty big space the really old  large movie theaters do much better, we have a few and overall it's always better than an arena, unless you have the optimum seat in an arena, which is extremely rare for us.

 

I don't know if Michael will answer it depends if he is reading and not working ? But it is what he does now.

[Dave1290]

Just unload everything you have in two semi's and have at it...  Guarantee you won't be putting much back IN the semi until after the show!  LOL 

 

[DizRotus]

Speaking of semis, you wouldn’t believe the numbers.  McCartney had 29; Lady Gaga had 26 for their concerts at Little Caesars Arena.  My guess is Hall & Oates had a similar number.  I’ll ask my son.

[DizRotus]

I was wrong.  Hall & Oates had 9 semis.  Maybe that’s why the sound was bad, not enough equipment. 😉

[DizRotus]

The beautiful Fox theater next door only seats 5,000, about half the crowd at the H & O concert.  We saw Rain (superb Beatles tribute band, recommended by Marty, @thebes 😉) at the Fox and the sound was amazing.  The economics of touring trump acoustics, unfortunately.

[Dave1290]

Jimi toured w/3 semi's and 2 were full of sound gear and stuff needed for the Joshua Light Show.  The band used one for gear/wardrobe etc.

[MookieStl]

@DizRotus Seems odd to go from the Joe Lewis Arena to "Little Caesar's" Doesn't have the same intimidating ring to it. But if they are a good sponsor..... I doubt they  based much of the design on acoustics.

I did the metal canopies on the building, so that part is cool.

 

[DizRotus]

Joe Louis Arena was a dump, Intimidating perhaps with history, but still a dump.

 

I thought those metal awnings at LCA looked spectacular, know we know why. 😊

[DizRotus]

1 hour ago, MookieStl said:

 . . .  But if they are a good sponsor..... I doubt they  based much of the design on acoustics.

 

 

Little Caesars is the owner, not merely a sponsor.  The Ilitch family owns Little Caesars, Detroit Red Wings, Detroit Tigers and LCA.  I agree, acoustics was not a high priority.

[MookieStl]

21 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Joe Louis Arena was a dump, Intimidating perhaps with history, but still a dump.

 

I thought those metal awnings at LCA looked spectacular, know we know why. 😊

Yeah, I had heard it was a dump. I was referring to the name more than anything. Sounds much cooler/macho as Joe Lewis than Little Caesar! But good owners beat the alternative.

 

 

 

[DizRotus]

Joe Louis is still honored in Detroit by the fist and a large photo inside LCA.  Having his name attached the the old arena was not an honor.

 

[Don Richard]

I always try to sit near the FOH console at arena events, or in the seats in the back about 10-15 rows up. Sitting in the side seats has never been a good experience for me.

[DizRotus]

I figured my great hockey seats were bad concert seats, but they were free and worth every cent paid.

[oldtimer]

I don't know much about Joe Louis Arena but I miss the dump the Stars used to play in called Reunion Arena.  It was a louder more raucous place that was closer to the action, and the Stars have never been the same since the new venue opened.

[Audio Flynn]

Pine Knob always sounded better than any Detroit arena.

 

Worst concert sound with the best performance was Tull 1980 (?) at The Olympia in Detroit before they demolished it. 

[avguytx]

I can't really remember the last "arena" concert I've been to but I would think it was after I first moved to Tulsa in the fall of 1990.  Now before that, we went to lots of arena concerts at Barton Coliseum in Little Rock (ugh...) but I've never seen one in the newer Altell Arena turned Verizon arena.  Barton was not a great sounding place and it's max capacity was a tad over 11k with general admission on the floor but it sure got loud in there.  I remember a few of them tripping the main power switches trying to run so much power.  Definitely contributed to my tinnitus.  Also used to go to Pine Bluff Convention center in PB....obviously and saw Ozzy with Randy Rhoades March 5th, 1982; the night John Belushi died.

 

Mid South Coliseum in Memphis and Reunion Arena in Dallas were some other places we went in those days.  Saw Judas Priest at Reunion on one of the nights they were recording it for the Live CD and VHS.   Also saw a few at Mc Nichols Arena in Denver back when my dad lived in Ft Collins, CO.

 

None ever sounded "great" but they tried to play loud to make up for it with about any band we saw at any of those locations.  But we really weren't there for the sound. 

[HDBRbuilder]

Went to many at Barton Coliseum in Little Rock, but its acoustics really were bad....way too much echo from its dome.  I actually much preferred Hirsch Memorial in Shreveport, LA to Barton Coliseum, because its acoustics were much better. 

 

BUT, that being said, the absolute BEST arena concert venue I was ever at was in the mid-1970's in Udine, Italy.  In those days they had three-day concerts in the summer months with the bands playing literally CENTER stage of an old Roman stadium, and with its elliptical shape, combined with the natural "elliptical bowl" it sat in, you just simply could NOT ask for better acoustics.  With top billings like Alice Cooper, Ten Years After, King Crimson, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, ...you name it, it was there!  Everything in Udine has changed since the mid-1970's, though.  Nowadays they have a purpose-built concert venue simply because it is more profitable for the promoters than having everybody clinging to a ridgeline or just below it without ever even having paid the admission price like back in the old days.

[rplace]

In recent years I've seen Neil Young, Foo Fighters with Social Distortion opening and U2 in Arenas. I was very pleasantly surprised with how good the sound was compared to prior Arena concerts in the 80s-early 2000s. Foo Fighters were simply fantastic in Philadelphia where their basket ball team plays (76-ers not Foos, Neil). My wife has also been a life long music lover and seen tons of acts over the years. We both remarked how the sound has improved over the years. I figured it must be the fact that tickets are now hundreds of dollars vs tens of dollars so simple math tells you they are 10X "better". Seriously I was guessing there must be some connection to improved technology but I have no idea what that might be. Maybe my ears have just gotten terrible. At any rate I'm happy with recent shows I've been to, much more than in the past. I'm seeing U2 later this month in the Capitol One Arena in D.C. Let's hope the trend continues.