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Belle’s placement/lack of bass


Sprogk

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Hi Guys

 

I have 2000sqf basement. Mostly empty for now.

 

My Belle’s lack the punch in the chest that I want to feel at high volumes. And to add to that they sound harsh. (I know the sound os bouncing all over the place...but that’s a different issue to be addressed later)

 

I know the Belle’s are know for their lack in bass so my question is simple. (Not really)

 

I have few options here...

1. Get 1802 sub for the. Belle’s

2. Get Khorns (by themselves)

3. Get one or two smaller Danley’s for the Belle’s (like two TH112’s)

 

How will I ever know what will be the best? I just don’t know. Im not sure the Khorns will enough bass either?

 

With the Belle’s along my 55ft wall (they were spaced about 15ft) the sweet spot is tiny. Just didn’t sound right. Even with a 1802 the sound didn’t fill the area very well. Bass was mostly absent.

 

Here is a pic of their current placement. Sounds the best there so far. All the other walls are wide open with no corners available making them sound tinny and small.

 

cb94e0539bcad1716447197050aa49f2.jpg

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Sprogk said:

 

Hi Guys

 

I have 2000sqf basement. Mostly empty for now.

 

My Belle’s lack the punch in the chest that I want to feel at high volumes. And to add to that they sound harsh. (I know the sound os bouncing all over the place...but that’s a different issue to be addressed later)

 

I know the Belle’s are know for their lack in bass so my question is simple. (Not really)

 

I have few options here...

1. Get 1802 sub for the. Belle’s

2. Get Khorns (by themselves)

3. Get one or two smaller Danley’s for the Belle’s (like two TH112’s)

 

How will I ever know what will be the best? I just don’t know. Im not sure the Khorns will enough bass either?

 

With the Belle’s along my 55ft wall (they were spaced about 15ft) the sweet spot is tiny. Just didn’t sound right. Even with a 1802 the sound didn’t fill the area very well. Bass was mostly absent.

 

Here is a pic of their current placement. Sounds the best there so far. All the other walls are wide open with no corners available making them sound tinny and small.

 

cb94e0539bcad1716447197050aa49f2.jpg

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Put them directly on the floor...no stands or wheels.  It would even be better if you removed those little metal. gliders originally stuck into the bottoms, and replaced those gliders with foam neoprene self stick GRIPPERS such as these:

Grippers black self stick neoprene.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

From the picture you posted, I can't even begin to imagine how horrible that must sound. Words fail me.......

 

This. No loudspeaker will sound worth a tinker's dam in that space.

 

Whenever I moved the stereo was the last thing in the truck and the first thing in the new house so move "move in music" could be played. The sound was always horrible at first but improved greatly as rugs, furniture, and drapes were brought in.

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3 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

That's like telling the guy that just got run over by a car that he should take care of that nasty cold.........

 

Shakey

He won't ever get the extreme lows, because Belles don't produce down that far; but NOT having them coupled TO THE FLOOR will definitely severely reduce the next higher octaves of bottom-end. 

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9 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

He won't ever get the extreme lows, because Belles don't produce down that far; but NOT having them coupled TO THE FLOOR will definitely severely reduce the next higher octaves of bottom-end. 

 

 

I get that. But there's so many other things going on that make that seem a little trivial.

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Firstly, get them out of that alcove.

 

Next, as long as your basement is unfinished like the picture shows, the sound is going to suck. And I'm trying to be nice here. Hard, reflective surfaces are terrible for acoustics. That's where you need to start.

 

Shakey

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First thing:  Belle Klipsch (and La Scalas) do NOT lack bass.  They lack deep bass.  In a good room, you might notice  the low E of a Double Bass is a little weak and maybe not.  There is little output below that. 

 

OTOH, as has been stated, you have them in the worst possible space.  The concrete walls reflect the mids and highs so much and in such a chaotic way that they cannot sound better than crap.  When the room is finished, furnished and dead enough that hand claps don't produce a noticeable slap-back, your room is ready. 

 

I will recommend they should be about as far apart as you sit from them and flat against the wall.  Start with them at least 4 feet from any corner.  You may toe them toward you if you need more highs.  Two good subs not placed symmetrically with respect to the floor plan (not exactly in the middle of opposite walls, for instance) and crossed around 60 Hz should give you good low bass.  A good sub is -3 dB at 20 Hz or less and should be able to hit 115+ dB at 1m. 

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First thing:  Belle Klipsch (and La Scalas) do NOT lack bass.  They lack deep bass.  In a good room, you might notice  the low E of a Double Bass is a little weak and maybe not.  There is little output below that. 
 
OTOH, as has been stated, you have them in the worst possible space.  The concrete walls reflect the mids and highs so much and in such a chaotic way that they cannot sound better than crap.  When the room is finished, furnished and dead enough that hand claps don't produce a noticeable slap-back, your room is ready. 
 
I will recommend they should be about as far apart as you sit from them and flat against the wall.  Start with them at least 4 feet from any corner.  You may toe them toward you if you need more highs.  Two good subs not placed symmetrically with respect to the floor plan (not exactly in the middle of opposite walls, for instance) and crossed around 60 Hz should give you good low bass.  A good sub is -3 dB at 20 Hz or less and should be able to hit 115+ dB at 1m. 


Thanks. I will move them to the opposite wall which is a big open wall (50ft ).

The basements will get couches rugs and tables eventually but I will have to probably add acoustic foam to help. The plan is to leave it mostly open plan. Maybe The basement isn’t a good spot for my setup. I really wanted khorns but have no good spot for them anyway.

Thanks for all the help. I have work to do down there.


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3 hours ago, Sprogk said:

IMG_5720.PNG


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Personally, I would put the belles here: (Speakers in blue, listening position in teal)

 

image.thumb.png.9b297e04a99bd57b376ecab9c795850f.png

 

This way you have a good symmetry at your listening position for channel balance and you can more easily treat the walls for reflections. 

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Personally, I would put the belles here: (Speakers in blue, listening position in teal)
 
image.thumb.png.9b297e04a99bd57b376ecab9c795850f.png
 
This way you have a good symmetry at your listening position for channel balance and you can more easily treat the walls for reflections. 


Forgot to mention water meter is in that corner....


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Ugh!!!  First, I think staircases can be fatal for any attempted placement, and nothing will work .  Second, speakers should be IN the largest part of the room, and aimed AT the smaller areas.  You've done exactly the opposite -- and next to the disastrous stairway too boot.  I would try them along the "55 foot" wall, aimed toward the opposite wall, i.e., toward the furnace room, stairwell, and their former position.  This puts the "listening position" in the more center of that big room and lets the sound expand into it, rather than struggling to be free.

 

K-horns would be more logical, with the adjacent unimpaired corners, except the room is so huge.  It might need a center channel, mid-way along that 55' wall, and that might be an ideal place to put one, or even both, Belles -- maybe.  Try it first if you can.  That combo could look very attractive, given the Belles' complementary design.  I suspect that staircase will use up all the bass you can give it.

 

Larry

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Sprogk said:

 


Forgot to mention water meter is in that corner....


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Ok, plan "B" then. Here is how I would have them. Start with the listening position and find a spot equal distance from the top and bottom walls (Green line distance should be the same) Mark that spot then place the belles along the left wall so you make an equilateral triangle with the same distance between the speakers and yourself (Pink lines the same distance). You are going to get a nasty reflection from that staircase right behind you so you will want to put a heavy curtain on the wall there if you can to make it "disappear" 

 

image.thumb.png.2b8489e3e81760dca4d2a37eb9dc5084.png

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Ugh!!!  First, I think staircases can be fatal for any attempted placement, and nothing will work .  Second, speakers should be IN the largest part of the room, and aimed AT the smaller areas.  You've done exactly the opposite -- and next to the disastrous stairway too boot.  I would try them along the "55 foot" wall, aimed toward the opposite wall, i.e., toward the furnace room, stairwell, and their former position.  This puts the "listening position" in the more center of that big room and lets the sound expand into it, rather than struggling to be free.
 
K-horns would be more logical, with the adjacent unimpaired corners, except the room is so huge.  It might need a center channel, mid-way along that 55' wall, and that might be an ideal place to put one, or even both, Belles -- maybe.  Try it first if you can.  That combo could look very attractive, given the Belles' complementary design.  I suspect that staircase will use up all the bass you can give it.
 
Larry
 
 



I actually like that idea Larry. Two Khorns opposite corners of the 55ft wall and Belle’s centers! I like!

But what about that sump pump in the left corner of that wall? I can off coarse build that sump into a closet or little room to creat a corner. But then Jubilees would also work if I have two corners! I always thought that 55ft corners are way to far apart for corner speakers....

would I still need a sub?



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