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Sprogk

Belle’s placement/lack of bass

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In that space--even with 9' high ceilings--you'll need a fair amount of absorption around Khorns, and almost as much around the Belles.  The Khorns, Belles, La Scalas, etc. have an interesting bit of extra acoustic energy that comes from the midrange horn in the vertical direction from ~350-1800 Hz that you need to absorb, otherwise you'll have very tinny/strident sounding loudspeakers.  More absorption is needed...a fair bit more with Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers.  Jubilees and JuBelles/JubScalas (using the K-402 horn on top) don't need this extra absorption, but it doesn't hurt to have it anyway.
 
I strongly recommend fairly substantial carpet around the Belles--out to about 6-8 feet from the midrange horn mouths. 
 
Two corner-located bass traps that are double thickness Owens-Corning 703 fiberglass panels across two room corners or along a floor-wall intersection.  The closer to the speakers that the bass traps are, the more effective they are.  Mid-bass boom and muddy sound are the symptoms of the need for bass traps, and concrete walls don't absorb anything like drywall does in most rooms. 
 
Chris


I lot of technical info here. I am going to have to fly some of the forum guys over to help me after I have the final speaker location

Thus far the direction to go is to get the walls/ceiling treated and get a decent sub or two. 1502 is a bit smaller from what I understand (which will fit through my doors) but I don’t think I can order one?




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5 minutes ago, Sprogk said:

1502 is a bit smaller from what I understand (which will fit through my doors) but I don’t think I can order one?

Then I'd recommend another horn-loaded sub. There are several DIY versions around.  If you're thinking about tapped horn (TH) designs, just be sure that the particular design that you select has no nulls in its response up through 80 Hz.  Otherwise the TH designs will be much more space efficient.  A conventional front-loaded horn (like the various Fitzmaurice designs) will generally sound very good, even up at higher frequencies. 

 

Chris

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Then I'd recommend another horn-loaded sub. There are several DIY versions around.  If you're thinking about tapped horn (TH) designs, just be sure that the particular design that you select has no nulls in its response up through 80 Hz.  Otherwise the TH designs will be much more space efficient.  A conventional front-loaded horn (like the various Fitzmaurice designs) will generally sound very good, even up at higher frequencies. 
 
Chris


Interesting link thank you.
Any experience with Danley? TH50? Or two TH112’s?


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Hi Guys
 
I have 2000sqf basement. Mostly empty for now.
 
My Belle’s lack the punch in the chest that I want to feel at high volumes. And to add to that they sound harsh. (I know the sound os bouncing all over the place...but that’s a different issue to be addressed later)
 
I know the Belle’s are know for their lack in bass so my question is simple. (Not really)
 
I have few options here...
1. Get 1802 sub for the. Belle’s
2. Get Khorns (by themselves)
3. Get one or two smaller Danley’s for the Belle’s (like two TH112’s)
 
How will I ever know what will be the best? I just don’t know. Im not sure the Khorns will enough bass either?
 
With the Belle’s along my 55ft wall (they were spaced about 15ft) the sweet spot is tiny. Just didn’t sound right. Even with a 1802 the sound didn’t fill the area very well. Bass was mostly absent.
 
Here is a pic of their current placement. Sounds the best there so far. All the other walls are wide open with no corners available making them sound tinny and small.
 
cb94e0539bcad1716447197050aa49f2.jpg
 
 
 
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[/]
The center of the 55’ wall would be 22.5’. I would place the speakers at 10’ each off center.


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Sounds like a good starting point. That wall has daylight windows but spaced well for speaker placement.



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I use two Danley TH-SPUD clones in the room corners behind my Jubilees (see Danley's spec sheet for each SPUD [I use two of these...not one] as compared to the Klipsch KPT 1802-HLS).  They work very well when crossed at 40 Hz with the Jub bass bins.  The other Danley subs that you mention have higher cutoff frequencies.  I was looking for something that reproduced at least one octave below the Jubilee bass bins (which cut off at 31 HZ with boosted low ends).  I got that performance plus another half octave (14 Hz).  The dip at 33 Hz is 1/4 wave wall bounce (about 8.5 feet from walls and ceiling):

 

938179653_JubBassBinSPUDsMay2017XilicaTAD.thumb.jpg.942187855a91ee9336f832bc4d0b4e92.jpg

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7 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

Yeah, but some people like to listen to actual music with the best electronics (which would in most cases be a tube amp)......

Actual!...Hey! I didn't make fun of your Bob Dylan did I? 🤣

Ok. Here you go try this on for size for "actual" music. We're talking bass here and I'll go slow...

Oh and at NO time will the following two recordings hurt your speakers. It's mainly bass guitar and drums. A little ting ting but that's it. Not jarring screech or blasting tweeters. So have fun turn it up. 

 

Drum stop, No good by Peter Smith. 

The bass guitar is amazing. Gets down low.

https://play.google.com/music/m/Trsgq37wcj7nc5jdhbrifec536q?t=Drums_Stop_No_Good_-_Steve_Smith

 

Peter White Hit the road Jack nice...

Turn it up! 

https://play.google.com/music/m/Txrd4i4j37zu7ymuhjeic3u3224?t=Hit_the_Road_Jack_-_Peter_White

 

 

Here is not "actual" music but made by a band of monkeys...minus the rap & Nobel prize. 

Let go deeper into house/jazz club mix. Bass here.....20 seconds into the tune. The bass hit and keeps on hitting. Jazz, bass, horns hey life is good. No sissy "jazz" here!

https://play.google.com/music/m/Tytvwpnmrmv76axyrckeesaobhi?t=Nothin_But_The_Blues_Original_Mix_-_SoDown

That's it you get the idea. Bell's are capable of bass if you have the power.

 

A bonus. A tiny bit of bass but the focus is on a beautiful, beautiful female vocalist. If I didn't know better she's using a tube microphone.  

Katie Melua. Sigh...This song REALLY shines on horns. 

 

https://play.google.com/music/m/Tcrodlygfmhcphnf2vg5csjntxu?t=Piece_By_Piece_-_Katie_Melua

 

Cheers. 

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Actual!...Hey! I didn't make fun of your Bob Dylan did I? 🤣
Ok. Here you go try this on for size for "actual" music. We're talking bass here and I'll go slow...
Oh and at NO time will the following two recordings hurt your speakers. It's mainly bass guitar and drums. A little ting ting but that's it. Not jarring screech or blasting tweeters. So have fun turn it up. 
 
Drum stop, No good by Peter Smith. 
The bass guitar is amazing. Gets down low.
https://play.google.com/music/m/Trsgq37wcj7nc5jdhbrifec536q?t=Drums_Stop_No_Good_-_Steve_Smith
 
Peter White Hit the road Jack nice...
Turn it up! 
https://play.google.com/music/m/Txrd4i4j37zu7ymuhjeic3u3224?t=Hit_the_Road_Jack_-_Peter_White
 
 
Here is not "actual" music but made by a band of monkeys...minus the rap & Nobel prize. 
Let go deeper into house/jazz club mix. Bass here.....20 seconds into the tune. The bass hit and keeps on hitting. Jazz, bass, horns hey life is good. No sissy "jazz" here!
https://play.google.com/music/m/Tytvwpnmrmv76axyrckeesaobhi?t=Nothin_But_The_Blues_Original_Mix_-_SoDown
That's it you get the idea. Bell's are capable of bass if you have the power.
 
A bonus. A tiny bit of bass but the focus is on a beautiful, beautiful female vocalist. If I didn't know better she's using a tube microphone.  
Katie Melua. Sigh...This song REALLY shines on horns. 
 
https://play.google.com/music/m/Tcrodlygfmhcphnf2vg5csjntxu?t=Piece_By_Piece_-_Katie_Melua
 
Cheers. 


Will try them all for sure.
I have lots of power ...Luxman 590axii


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