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Cornwall placement in weird room


mj452312

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I'm interested in opinions on what the best placement for my Cornwalls in this room would be?  I feel like currently they're tucked too far into one corner, and I have to toe them in quite a bit to get the best sound.  I have been thinking about putting them in the corners on the short wall?  Interested in hearing opinions....would doing a 3 channel system along the long wall be worth the effort?  I have a Heresy I could put in the center.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

Short wall for sure. But you may find out like I did that corners are a no go. That said, you definitely want symetrical placement for the best tonal balance and imaging. Anything else and you are surely compromising performance.

 

Shakey

What happened that you didn’t like when you put Cornwalls in the corner? 

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I agree with SiliconTi, the corners of the short wall are your best bet. The problem with your current placement is you are getting gain from the left wall reflection with an open space on the right which is going to cause an channel imbalance. Even the balance controls can bring the vocals back to the center but you will never get the clean soundstage that you will from having the walls even on both sides.

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3 hours ago, jwgorman said:

What happened that you didn’t like when you put Cornwalls in the corner? 

 

 

As good as the cornwall is, it can get a little "boxy" sounding at times. The corners exacerbate this issue. They don't sound terrible there, but they sound like speakers. Away from the corners, they sound like music in the room.

 

Shakey

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On 6/13/2018 at 2:12 PM, mj452312 said:

I'm interested in opinions on what the best placement for my Cornwalls in this room would be?  I feel like currently they're tucked too far into one corner, and I have to toe them in quite a bit to get the best sound.  I have been thinking about putting them in the corners on the short wall?  Interested in hearing opinions....would doing a 3 channel system along the long wall be worth the effort?  I have a Heresy I could put in the center.

 

 

 

 

Make or buy some cheap casters on a plank (or better yet, a dolly, which is more useful for other things). Buy some long speaker wires and a folding chair. Now try every spot in the room until you get the best sound for YOU. This includes putting the speakers on either side of the entrance and your chair against the long wall. IOW, try them ALL. Or you can just get all the free internet opinions you can handle and still not solve your problem. As for me, I will order a rubber stamp that says: TRY IT.

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On 6/13/2018 at 1:12 PM, mj452312 said:

I'm interested in opinions on what the best placement for my Cornwalls in this room would be.  I feel like currently they're tucked too far into one corner, and I have to toe them in quite a bit to get the best sound.  I have been thinking about putting them in the corners on the short wall?  Interested in hearing opinions....would doing a 3 channel system along the long wall be worth the effort?  I have a Heresy I could put in the center.

layout.png

I'd try the short wall first.  Toeing in stabilizes the soundstage and is a good thing.  The room coverage will be better than what you show as your current locations.  I'd also recommend trying to measure the frequency response of what you get...in any case.  Guessing is not a very effective approach, I've found.  Once you EQ everything down to flat and control the "room boom" (too much midbass reverberation from 70-200 Hz), it should sound excellent.

 

As always with Klipsch Heritage, adding some room absorption to the floor and perhaps walls just adjacent to the CW's midrange horn mouths to cut down on early reflections will dramatically improve the soundstage and phantom center imaging while retaining the corner (eighth space) loading for the CW woofers. A rule of thumb is to use two feet depth (toward the listening positions) of absorption material for the walls, and 4-6 feet in front of the loudspeakers on the floor (if you don't already have carpeting--which is not indicated in your drawing).  

 

Three channel operation with a Heresy would probably work well along the long wall (spread wide to the half wall). This locks in the center of the stereo image in a way that allows just about all listening positions to hear the stereo image without having to be in a "sweet spot".  (This is a real advantage that I believe a lot of people easily forget here.)  The trick of course is getting the center channel blended well and elevated properly to fill the "hole in the center".  Once you elevate the Heresy, its low bass and midbass response will be severely compromised, but the midrange and treble will blend seamlessly.  How you electrically blend the center channels is also important.  Re-EQing the Heresy for maximum flatness of frequency response is also key to getting the three-channel operation dialed in.

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

As good as the cornwall is, it can get a little "boxy" sounding at times. The corners exacerbate this issue. They don't sound terrible there, but they sound like speakers. Away from the corners, they sound like music in the room.

 

Shakey

 

That's very interesting. I think my hardwood pine wood walls don't help at all with the "Boxy" sound either.

JJK

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22 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

 

That's very interesting. I think my hardwood pine wood walls don't help at all with the "Boxy" sound either.

JJK

Pine is not a "hardwood"...just saying...and that being said, you can actually SONICALLY improve walls by using wood coverings, provided the wood is not TOTALLY smooth and has, for instance, milled channels running vertically....like this:

Milled paneling.jpgIt helps reduce reflections by partially diffusing them.

OR...you can use other wood coverings on walls along with some quality finish carpentry...like this:

woodwork.jpg

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9 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

 

That's very interesting. I think my hardwood pine wood walls don't help at all with the "Boxy" sound either.

JJK

Yeah, that'll make the reflections a bit more severe.  I know they call them Cornwalls because their good in corners and against walls but more bass isn't necessarily better bass.  Pulled out and toed in some amount has given me a better sound stage and imaging.  I'd get the location right for the pair before I started messing with a center.  Worry about the low end first... get your seat and speaker placement so you have the least peaks and nulls on the low end before you start enabling EQ.  Let the room work for you as much as it can first.  I don't see how you can avoid the need to use some acoustical treatments.  

 

 

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I'm interested in opinions on what the best placement for my Cornwalls in this room would be?  I feel like currently they're tucked too far into one corner, and I have to toe them in quite a bit to get the best sound.  I have been thinking about putting them in the corners on the short wall?  Interested in hearing opinions....would doing a 3 channel system along the long wall be worth the effort?  I have a Heresy I could put in the center.
 
 
layout.png
 

Stuff em into the corners of the long wall and toe em in 45 degrees. If you need the Heresy use it. PWK said to use the long wall in a room. This should sound amazing!


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I'd try one between the fireplace and the window and the other the same distance out from the corner on the adjacent wall.  Move the couch a little and that won't totally mess up your room layout.  Put HEAVY curtains over the windows (say 4 insulated panels per window).  Be sure you have a rug on the floor between the couch and speakers.  Maybe hang some persian rugs on the walls where reflections first strike. 

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7 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

As good as the cornwall is, it can get a little "boxy" sounding at times. The corners exacerbate this issue. They don't sound terrible there, but they sound like speakers. Away from the corners, they sound like music in the room.

That's only if you don't add a little absorption on the side and front walls (about 2 feet deep).  This is due to early reflections from these two surfaces.  Same thing for the floor (even worse, in fact, needing more absorption) and ceiling if it's low (less than 8 feet).  Just control these early reflections, then you get the free bass extension of the eighth space loading. This is where you EQ the bass flat again.  You get about 1/2-1 octave more bass extension in the corners than if you place the Cornwall out in the room, especially if you've been playing them elevated above the floor. 

 

But the biggest deal is that you're decreasing the bass distortion by corner loading (and re-EQing the bass flat again). If you're not using EQ to flatten response, then you've got a problem...

 

See https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=53973

 

Chris

 

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6 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

If you see me using EQ in my system, THEN you know I've got a problem............

 

LOL!  

 

Thanks for all the info/input.  I've got them in the corners on the short wall now, and the room as a whole sounds a lot better and even throughout, but the sweet spot is in the center of the room 😃.  I'll play with the toe-in a bit, and if I get ambitious, I may see how they sound in the corners on the long wall and report back.

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