Should Mickelson WD?

[ZEUS121996]

So watching the US Open today, Phil Mickelson pulls a bonehead move.  He hits a putt downhill, clearly it's not going to stop before rolling off the green into the abyss. So he runs over and hits it back toward the hole while it's still rolling. If you play, you know the rule is you can't hit a  ball in motion unless it is in a body of water with a current. Penalty for hitting a ball in motion is a 2 shot penalty if you go with rule 14-2. Under the rule 1-? you can't do anything INTENTIONALLY to manipulate the ball in play, penalty is DQ. Should he withdraw from tomorrow's round or tee it? He should be DQ'ed IMO after the round. 

If he does withdraw, it's going to suck for his playing partner, he would be playing as a single and waiting on every shot, unless the USGA changes his time to 1st off which they won't do.

Not to discriminate, but if you don't know the rules of golf, please don't jump in and spew the quotes from TV  commentators. Brandel Chamblee is the Skip Bayless of golf, the only difference being Chamblee actually played on the tour and Bayless' position of his HS team was to run on the field after the kickoff and bring the tee to the sideline. That or jockstrap washing after the game or practice.

 

Mark

[jimjimbo]

Another dumb Phil move in a US Open.....yes, he should be DQ'd.  But, the USGA won't do it, they are a gigantic mess as is evidenced by the condition of the golf course.  That is not an excuse for Phil, but you would have thought they would have learned more lessons up till now, and especially when this tournament was last held at this venue.  I heard some officials say last night that they are going to put down a lot of water last night....but it's not really going to help.  They've lost the course already.

[willland]

Tough call.  As mentioned in yesterday's broadcast, this was way out of character for him and he seemed to have just snapped in frustration.   I do think if rule 14-2 applies, he should consider withdrawing.  Who knows how far the ball would have rolled and how many puts it would have taken to sink the ball.  Though "mathematically" I don't think he has an honest chance to win, he could have a brilliant round and end up in the top 20 which would pay out more and benefit his Fed Ex Cup points and his world ranking.  The noble thing would be to withdraw, IMO.  

 

Bill

 

[wvu80]

Of course he should not be DQ'd.  He knocked his own putt mid-flight back towards the hole and scored a ten.  Who amoungst us hasn't done that?  At least once every other round?

 

I haven't watched a minute of the tourney but I bet TV replays that after every other commercial, and even if the number one player hits a hole-in-one on a 500 yard par 5 then TV would still choose to replay Phil's frustration shot.  It's ratings gold since Tiger triple bogeyed to start the tournament and eventually missed the cut.  Ratings peak on Sunday when Tiger is the the mix at the end.

 

Frankly he should have thrown his putter into the water and putted the rest of the tourney with his driver. 

 

Phil represents the common man.   ⛳

[willland]

51 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

But, the USGA won't do it, they are a gigantic mess as is evidenced by the condition of the golf course. 

The US Open historically has been the toughest Major and maybe even of all pro tournaments.  Is Shinnecock Hills ridiculously tough this weekend?  Absolutely.  Is it a level(pardon pun) playing field?  Absolutely IMO.  Today is all about survival.

 

Bill

[JJkizak]

44 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Of course he should not be DQ'd.  He knocked his own putt mid-flight back towards the hole and scored a ten.  Who amoungst us hasn't done that?  At least once every other round?

 

I haven't watched a minute of the tourney but I bet TV replays that after every other commercial, and even if the number one player hits a hole-in-one on a 500 yard par 5 then TV would still choose to replay Phil's frustration shot.  It's ratings gold since Tiger triple bogeyed to start the tournament and eventually missed the cut. 

 

Frankly he should have thrown his putter into the water and putted the rest of the tourney with his driver. 

 

Phil represents the common man.   ⛳

 

That's what happens when your not allowed to say swear words out loud. Every golf course should have a small outdoor "Rant house facility" to enter and close the door and scream and holler at the top of your lung capacity, break stuff, bend stuff and  then you can calmly return to hit the next ball provided that your not assessed a "Slow time penalty".

JJK

[Dave1290]

I can remember Phil playing Muirfield VERY early in his career when I was shooting it.  I'm thinking it was his first time actually.  LONG ago!  So VERY gracious in EVERY way to EVERY one.   Practice rounds his wife and kids would catch up to him on the holes and walk the course w/Dad just like many other kids.  His focus was still golf but you could see just how much he loved his family.   Now he's had quite a few health problems which affect his game but his spirit on the course has never wavered.  He's still that way today!  Yup, he screwed up and knew he screwed up.  He's human just like all of us and he'll accept whatever the ruling is today IF there is one.  Look at Tiger and so many others...  They're all human.  It'll sort and he'll accept it.  That's the way he is.   

[willland]

7 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

Every golf course should have a small outdoor "Rant house facility" to enter and close the door and scream and holler at the top of your lung capacity, break stuff, bend stuff

Kind of like a safe space crying booth?

 

Bill

[ZEUS121996]

1 minute ago, wvu80 said:

Of course he should not be DQ'd.  He knocked his own putt mid-flight back towards the hole and scored a ten.  Who amoungst us hasn't done that?  At least once every other round?

 

I haven't watched a minute of the tourney but I bet TV replays that after every other commercial, and even if the number one player hits a hole-in-one on a 500 yard par 5 then TV would still choose to replay Phil's frustration shot.  It's ratings gold since Tiger triple bogeyed to start the tournament and eventually missed the cut. 

 

Frankly he should have thrown his putter into the water and putted the rest of the tourney with his driver. 

 

Phil represents the common man.   ⛳

Doc,

I get your point. Recreational players shouldn't follow the rules,  most think they are playing for the club championship, that's why the look at putts from every angle possible, get their rangefinder out to get the precise yardage and IDK how many other things that will have little for the 110 they shoot. 110,  if they played by the rules. That's what creates the 5 1/2+ hour round, which they all b---tch about.

 

The fact is you can not intentionally strike a moving ball with few exceptions, your ball in a creek is a good example.

 

The common man isn't playing for the national championship, the $1.2? 1st place, the FedEx points etc. Having played for money in tournaments and cash games forever, I would have been DQ'ed in tournament play and if I had a partner in a match, probably got my *** kicked by my partner. I would automatically lose all the Nassau bets (8 or more) If you play, you have to play for something,  playing for fun? What's that? 

Throw his putter in the water? He would have been put on the clock for slow play looking for a lake. HA!

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

 I heard some officials say last night that they are going to put down a lot of water last night....but it's not really going to help.  They've lost the course already. 

The greens are Poa, which is a great surface to putt on, they won't drain as fast as a bent grass green so the water will slow from 14 down to 13 on the Stimp early in the day.Wren it's 90 degrees and the wind is blowing, I don't care how much water you put down, it's going to dry out throughout the day. Unless they raised the mowers, rolled the greens (if they rolled them) and hand water during the roundm the greens should be  "slicker than a wax bikini"😃😌

 

Mark

[jimjimbo]

59 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Who amoungst us hasn't done that?

You are obviously not a professional golfer, and apparently nor do you have any respect for the RULES.

[wvu80]

55 minutes ago, ZEUS121996 said:

Doc,

I get your point. Recreational players shouldn't follow the rules,  most think they are playing for the club championship, that's why the look at putts from every angle possible, get their rangefinder out to get the precise yardage and IDK how many other things that will have little for the 110 they shoot. 110,  if they played by the rules. That's what creates the 5 1/2+ hour round, which they all b---tch about.

LOL!  You having a discussion with me over golf is like you having a dual of wits with an unarmed man!  Pretty sure you got me on that one.  😎

 

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in my earlier comment.  Phil is a Big Boy and he knows the rules. 

 

Pro Golf prides itself on it's sometimes arcane and almost unknowable rules and they even invent rules that aren't even rules!  Remember a couple of years ago when someone got DQ'd because someone saw a ball move a FRACTION of an inch while at rest and the viewer called the PGA?  DQ'ing after the round was over due to a TV replay wasn't in the rule book.

 

If the rule for what Phil did is a DQ then as you say, this is the professional national championship.  Sorry Phil, I feel for you, I love you, but you're out.

 

 

[ZEUS121996]

12 minutes ago, Dave1290 said:

I can remember Phil playing Muirfield VERY early in his career when I was shooting it.  I'm thinking it was his first time actually.  LONG ago!  So VERY gracious in EVERY way to EVERY one.   Practice rounds his wife and kids would catch up to him on the holes and walk the course w/Dad just like many other kids.  His focus was still golf but you could see just how much he loved his family.   Now he's had quite a few health problems which affect his game but his spirit on the course has never wavered.  He's still that way today!  Yup, he screwed up and knew he screwed up.  He's human just like all of us and he'll accept whatever the ruling is today IF there is one.  Look at Tiger and so many others...  They're all human.  It'll sort and he'll accept it.  That's the way he is.   

Phil turned pro in 92 I believe, his kids aren't 26 years old, I just Googled it, his oldest daughter is 18, so you must have been shooting the tournament after 2003 after his 3rd daughter was born..

They WILL NOT make another decision, that decision was made yesterday and stands. Yes, we all screw up, he's on the range, so I guess he will be playing

 

Mark

[wvu80]

2 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

You are obviously not a professional golfer, and apparently nor do you have any respect for the RULES.

 

Whaa?  I AM TOO!!!  🤬  I could beat you with one hand tied behind your back.

 

Maybe. 

[Dave1290]

2 minutes ago, ZEUS121996 said:

Phil turned pro in 92 I believe, his kids aren't 26 years old, I just Googled it, his oldest daughter is 18, so you must have been shooting the tournament after 2003 after his 3rd daughter was born..

They WILL NOT make another decision, that decision was made yesterday and stands. Yes, we all screw up, he's on the range, so I guess he will be playing

 

Mark

Mark, 

I walked Muirfield when Jack was spray painting trees and he thought I was insane.  Yet he appreciated me doing it for him.  I have photos of the course being built.   You've no idea how many changes Jack made to that course to get the "feel" of playing that same hole on another course somewhere in the world.  Almost every hole on that course is a pattern from another course Jack played and loved.   That's why it's such a tough course for the pros.  Phil's kids were maybe 3-4 years old and one was just a baby I believe.  I remember shooting his son w/Phil hitting one in the tee box, which I gave to him the next year.   Timing is about right though.  

[TasDom]

DQ'd, no...penalized, yes of course as rules are rules.

 

FOX should be DQ'd from covering PGA tournaments. Their coverage always sucks compared to CBS.

[Dave1290]

3 minutes ago, TasDom said:

DQ'd, no...penalized, yes of course as rules are rules.

 

FOX should be DQ'd from covering PGA tournaments. Their coverage always sucks compared to CBS.

I can remember ABC bumping CBS outta covering the Memorial.  That lasted until their contract expired and Jack went back to CBS and has never changed.  Fox is Fox!

 

[ZEUS121996]

5 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

LOL!  You having a discussion with me over gold is like you having a dual of wits with an unarmed man!  Pretty sure you got me on that one.  😎

 

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in my earlier comment.  Phil is a Big Boy and he knows the rules. 

 

Pro Golf prides itself on it's sometimes arcane and almost unknowable rules and they even invent rules that aren't even rules!  Remember a couple of years ago when someone got DQ'd because someone saw a ball move a FRACTION of an inch while at rest and the viewer called the PGA?  DQ'ing after the round was over due to a TV replay wasn't in the rule book.

 

If the rule for what Phil did is a DQ then as you say, this is the professional national championship.  Sorry Phil, I feel for you, I love you, but you're out.

 

 

I know it was tongue in cheek, I thought it would be Mail Pouch or Redman. If we're talking about gold, you own me.

The actual rule book (34 rules) fits in your back pocket, the Decision book is HUUUGE. The test on the Decision book to be an official is crazy difficult, being a rules official would be a honor to anyone.

I remember Michelle Wie being penalized, DQ'ed after she signed for a wrong score. (you can sign for a higher score and have to live with it, sign for a lower score and you're done. Ask Roberto Di Vencenzo, he lost the Maters in 68 for signing a wrong score) 

 

Mark

[ZEUS121996]

http://www.augusta.com/masters/story/history/1968-de-vicenzo-signs-wrong-score-goalby-wins-masters

Michelle Wie http://www.golf.com/ap-news/wie-dqd-brink-first-lpga-win

AND here http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/steep-drop

If you're going to play by the rules, you better know them, if you aren't sure there are rules officials everywhere. Even in small events, an official is a radio call and cart ride away

 

Mark

[Dave1290]

3 minutes ago, ZEUS121996 said:

I know it was tongue in cheek, I thought it would be Mail Pouch or Redman. If we're talking about gold, you own me.

The actual rule book (34 rules) fits in your back pocket, the Decision book is HUUUGE. The test on the Decision book to be an official is crazy difficult, being a rules official would be a honor to anyone.

I remember Michelle Wie being penalized, DQ'ed after she signed for a wrong score. (you can sign for a higher score and have to live with it, sign for a lower score and you're done. Ask Roberto Di Vencenzo, he lost the Maters in 68 for signing a wrong score) 

 

Mark

Agree with that.  I can remember her doing that.  The officials are respected as much or more so by the Staff at Muirfield yet if you talk to them they put their pants on the same way we do.  Fuzzy Zoeller and I used to tell jokes every year.  We had a blast w/everyone.  Cbus legendary TV sports anchor Jimmy Crum used to announce the players on the first tee during the practice rounds.  One day Fuzzy drilled one off the tee and right past Jimmy's head doing the introduction.  EVERYone rolled...  The next day I borrowed a catcher's mask locally and took it down to the tourney in a brown paper bag giving it to JC and telling him to put it on for the intro of Fuzzy that day...  He stopped everything, pulled the mask out and put it on to do Fuzzy's intro.  Talk about dying laffin???  The ENTIRE place was laffin.  Fuzzy couldn't tee off he was laffin so hard...  So yea, they're human and real just like everyone else.    Tourney starts they're ALL business though!

[ZEUS121996]

18 minutes ago, TasDom said:

DQ'd, no...penalized, yes of course as rules are rules.

 

FOX should be DQ'd from covering PGA tournaments. Their coverage always sucks compared to CBS.

No one is questioning if he broke the rule, the decision is being questioned. Rule 1-? states you can not intentionally hit your ball if it's moving (with few exceptions) The penalty is DQ. The rule 14-2 states that you hit your own ball while moving, in stroke play is 2. Below is 14-2 expanded

 

14-4. Striking the Ball More Than Once

If a player’s club strikes the ball more than once in the course of a stroke, the player must count the stroke and add a penalty stroke, making two strokes in all.

14-5. Playing Moving Ball

A player must not make a stroke at his ball while it is moving.

Exceptions:

• Ball falling off tee – Rule 11-3
• Striking the ball more than once – Rule 14-4
• Ball moving in water – Rule 14-6

When the ball begins to move only after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of his club for the stroke, he incurs no penalty under this Rule for playing a moving ball, but he is not exempt from any penalty under Rule 18-2 (Ball at rest moved by player).

(Ball purposely deflected or stopped by player, partner or caddie – see Rule 1-2)

 

Mark